Require counterbalancing loader

thatguy · Mar 6, 2005

OK.. I have been reading over some John Deere material on how much counter weight you need in order to use the loader with their compact tractor, and I am really confused.. It has a matrix by bucket size, type of material and then how much weight you would need on the rear (weights, loaded tires, or 3ph attachment) as counter weight.

The information sheet on the 210 loader is at this link - pages 6 and 7 (BTW this website has a lot of JD spec sheets on all different machines and implements that I havent found anyplace else)

http://www.stonehams.com/pdf/210loader.pdf

the way i look at it.. if I want to move 300 lbs (load and bucket weight) with the loader - I would need loaded tires AND 4 wheel weights AND 310 lbs. on the 3ph.. This doesnt seem right to me, I was thinking as long as something on the 3ph that would be equal to or greater than what I was picking up I would be ok..

Am I misreading these charts or would I really need that much counter weight??

thanks for comments

Brian

RalphVa · Mar 6, 2005

I just moved 19.5 tons of gravel with my JD 4010 FEL, std. 49". I had a soil ripper that weighs maybe 200#, incl. drawbar and all. In addition, I had a couple 4x4s and 2 bags of soil (40# each). Until I put the soil bags on top the ripper, it seems tippy when I was a tad sideways on my trail across the hill and turning slightly right. After I put the bags on, it was fine. I learned how to really stuff the bucket, too. The rear tires are loaded, too. They're the huge, wide turf tires.

Don't go running around with the bucket very high. I kept mine no more than 6-12" off the ground except when I went to dump. Even then I raised it the least amount possible. Usually curling the bucket down gave and automatic slight raise.

Ralph

JackIL · Mar 6, 2005

You are misreading the charts which is easy to do. The first number in each column is in kilograms and the second in pounds. So if you have a combined weight of 330 pounds (bucket plus payload), the chart says you need no liquid in the tires, no wheel weights, but you do need 518 pounds in the ballast box (or a 518 pound rear implement on the 3 point hitch.

If you look down through the charts, as payload is increased, more and more counterbalancing weight is required. Notice that it is done in the order that goes from easiest to do (rear 3 point hitch ballast) to the more difficult to do (liquid ballast in the rear tires) with wheel weights in the middle.

These guidelines are calculated carefully and should be followed for stability control and safe operation.

JackIL

KiotiJohn · Mar 6, 2005

It has been my experience that the tractor will pretty much let you know when you need more weight. Graphs and charts and bull and stuff aside, I can usually do full loads of dirt in my 54" bucket with no more on the back than my 48" boxblade, but at times could use just a little more weight. When I have the Backhoe on, I can use the loader to it's fullest capacity, but I'm usually swapping back and forth between loader and boxblade when doing dirt work in a yard. I do not have loaded tires, although that would probably be all I'd need. I just don't want the heavy backhoe and loaded tires at the same time. John

JDFANATIC · Mar 6, 2005

thatguy,

IMHO, the JD manual errs on the side of safety. I mean how many varibles are there: slope, conditions, bucket size, density of what the loader is carrying. I have the 2210 with loaded rear tires (~120 lbs per side), and with the 53" bucket (not recommended for heavy work), it works fine (as long as the load is light -- bark mulch, etc). But for the really heavy stuff, I use the ballast box filled with concrete (the 2210 always knows there is a bunch of weight on the back, but I've never had the feeling I was only a degree away from joining the upsidedown club! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

thatguy · Mar 6, 2005

OK... I see my errors on kg vs lbs.. Now it makes more sense.. Thanks.

A follow up question - If you also mow the yard with the tractor (lets assume a MMM and removing fel - all on flat ground) would the loaded tires be too much weight? Or would you be better off with the removable weights instead?

Thanks for correcting my error and the other advise..

Brian

bugstruck · Mar 6, 2005

( ) Roger that. As soon as you lift it you know if you need more. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif JD has a greater need for back ballast from what I've seen and heard. They put stout loaders on tractors that are a little light in the chops. Even the new 20 series sales training advises the salesman to load the rear tires and provide a ballast box (or equivalent counterweight) on all new tractors with FEL. I drilled the salesman on this when I was looking and he said it's not even optional on the 20 series. Gotta have both. Most of us have to contend with one or the other, not always both. Says something good for Deere rather than bad... in the end. However, IMO it would be a nuisance, to always have to tail an implement to stay balanced on FEL work. If I'm picking up a 1K lb. log I don't want to run for the rear blade or the BH. I just want to move it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JDFANATIC · Mar 7, 2005

thatguy,

Becuase I have some moderately severe slope conditions,

Image

I take my loader off while mowing. It only takes a few seconds, and the tractor is balanced much better. As for mowing with the loaded tires, I haven't noticed any more of a tendancy to damage the lawn, and in fact it is better on it especially when turning, going upslope etc. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

KiotiJohn · Mar 7, 2005

( If you also mow the yard with the tractor (lets assume a MMM and removing fel - all on flat ground) would the loaded tires be too much weight? )
This may have more to do with what soil you have than how much weight the loaded tires would exert. Heavily clay soils tend to mark up with just about any weight, while sandy soil such as I have doesn't mark up even with my Motorhome driving across the lawn. In general, if it's not soaking wet, you probably wouldn't have any major problems. Cutting in 2WD is usually recommended as 4WD tends to tear the lawn more. John

TCarey · Mar 7, 2005

Thatguy

I have a 2210 with the 210 FEL, but with no loaded tires. I personally feel the amount of work you can do with the FEL is a function of the ground you are working in, and the load you are trying to handle. With, or without ballast on the rear, the 2210 can be upset by side slope, especially if you have the FEL anywhere but very low. I use ballast when handling any heavy loads like soil, and it does make a lot of difference, but the tractor is still sensitive to side tipping. I recommend alway keeping your load close to the ground until you need to raise it to dump....