Reckless driving

Bedlam · May 26, 2008

Ahh all about money. I heard a story from a policeman once who had just closed a huge real estate deal some miles away. He was really speeding and deserved the ticket., But really it was a 'business expense' for him. If the was late I guess the deal wouldn't have gone through.
A fine of any sort is only as good as someones ability to feel the pain when paying. thus the little honest guy gets shafted yet again.
We always assume that the police we hire are going to uphold their end of the deal to protect and serve, and many still do. I like to think the majority are in this class. good luck , usually the bad ones already stand out in court.

MikePA · May 26, 2008

Bedlam said:
Ahh all about money. A fine of any sort is only as good as someones ability to feel the pain when paying. thus the little honest guy gets shafted yet again.

I couldn't disagree more. The size of the fine represents how serious the infraction is of reckless driving. So does the fact it's considered a criminal offense. With children in the car it could get worse. It's not 'all about money'. While the real estate agent might be able to afford the fine easier, the points against the license are wealth independent. Rich or poor, if you accumulate enough points, you park it. I have no idea what you mean about the 'honest guy getting shafted yet again.'

Bird · May 26, 2008

I thought I'd just watch this and stay out of it, but . . .

The information in MikePA's first post is probably the best information. You always have a better chance (doesn't mean you'll win) if you have a lawyer go to court with you. Judges are lawyers and they want to see you help to support the profession financially.

Now for a few things I've seen personally.

Beware of lawyers who say you don't need to go to court; that they'll take care of it. Sometimes they just don't do anything at all and you won't know it until you get arrested for failing to appear. Or, of course, they actually may take care of it. They may be bribing someone in the court to get tickets dismissed.

If you hire a lawyer, be sure you pay with a check or get a receipt. I've booked lots of folks into jail for failing to appear who said they paid a lawyer and thought it was taken care of. I always asked if they paid cash or check and whether they got a receipt. It was always cash and no receipt, of course. I'm sure some lied, but I'm also confident that some didn't.

Without a lawyer, you can get into as much trouble with a judge by talking too much as you can by not stating your side. He's not interested in what a fine a fellow you are; family man, employed, never arrested, go to church, etc. that has nothing to do with the current alleged violation.

A lawyer will probably have some knowledge of the court's honesty, or lack thereof, that you won't know about. In 1972, at the National Safety Council meeting in Chicago, there was a panel discussion that included a police chief, driver instructor, and a judge. A question arose as to how to "beat" a ticket in court and the police chief said it was simple; hire a lawyer and your ticket will be dismissed. The judge was obviously annoyed, but admitted it was true. She said if you had paid a lawyer, she felt that you'd been punished enough, so she dismissed all those tickets. I always thought fines went to the government agency, not to lawyers. Well, a short time later, I had occasion to meet the chief administrative Cook County traffic court judge in a class he was supposed to teach. So, being a naive southern boy who thought that female judge was crooked and I'd stool her off, I asked him about it. Well, come to find out, he was even worse. He dismissed all tickets if the recipient came to court and plead not guilty. He claimed his theory was that if a person took the time to come to court, that person really believed himself to be innocent and by dismissing the ticket he'd feel he was treated fairly and it was good public relations for both police and courts.

Of course, the local police officers disagreed but had to be careful what they said in front of their judge.

czechsonofagun · May 27, 2008

I have to say, I spent a lot of time thinking about it. Thanks for all the advices, guys. I am gonna start with a driver improvement class - it can't hurt - and I will get some safety driving points from it. Actually - and this may sound like BS - I think I need to change my driving style, not to get in trouble again. Because if I don't, they are gonna get me sooner or later again. It is a matter of compatibility with the system, n'est-ce pas?

Also today I plan to show up at the court to watch the action and get a copy of my driving record and also try to get all the info they have on my charges.

As of the lawyer, yes, I am definitely planning on finding one. My only concern is not to look too arrogant with a lawyer. I don't really want to beat the ticket, just changed to something less.

Bedlam · May 27, 2008

Good luck to you gun.
You said "
I think I need to change my driving style, not to get in trouble again. Because if I don't, they are gonna get me sooner or later again"
To me this sounds like in a sense you feel you were somewhat wrong, I would view you idea of changing you driving style as more slowing and trying to be more cautious. We all at one tome or another drive "badly"
But the trick is realize that we all need to be a safer driver, as we aren't invincible as we knew we were at the age of 17.
We need to slow and try to allot more time to go where we go. My sister will say it takes 45 minutes to get to the airport, when in reality it take 60 if going the speed limit.We will actually sit in the house waiting for the right time to go. And almost always end up rushing(speeding).I think id rather sit at the destination than to stress myself like that.LOL
But good luck, it sounds to me that you see your trouble.

Tig · May 27, 2008

Prokop, I think you have taken an excellent approach to this. Make sure you get all those things done. Driver class, driving record, lawyer. Make it very clear to the lawyer that you take responsibility for your driving but don't feel that you deserve a criminal record. Around here I doubt the charge would be dismissed but it might be plead down to unsafe lane change. Ask your lawyer what this could be plead down to.
Years back I had an accident that I was clearly responsible for. There were extenuating circumstances such as weather and another car etc.... The short of it is that it was no one else's fault but mine, period. My lawyer was an idiot who told me I was not at fault and I just sat there while he presented my case. The charge could have and should have been plead down to following too close, but he was an all or nothing guy and I was a stupid kid. I learned a few lessons from that experience. The first one was to always take responsibility for what you have done.

Z-Michigan · May 27, 2008

czechsonofagun said:
As of the lawyer, yes, I am definitely planning on finding one. My only concern is not to look too arrogant with a lawyer. I don't really want to beat the ticket, just changed to something less.

This is very practical. FYI, you will never "look arrogant" by hiring a lawyer for something like this (I suppose you would if it were a parking ticket or some other trivial thing). Instead, you might actually look arrogant or foolish by not hiring a lawyer, given that the charge appears to be a serious one in your state. I don't go to court much, but from what I've seen judges do not enjoy dealing with defendants who aren't represented.

Anyway, good luck!

Bird · May 27, 2008

I am gonna start with a driver improvement class

I am a strong proponent of that for everyone, and I'll try to explain why. I don't know about all states and all insurance companies, but in Texas most of the insurance companies will give you a discount on the premiums (10% usually) if you take a "defensive driving course" every 3 years, so saving money is enough incentive for me.

I've had a drivers license now for over 52 years. For many years, I was licensed to drive anything you could legally put on the road. Many years ago, I was a part time taxicab driver in Dallas, I drove a school bus one year, I've owned cars, trucks, motorcycles, motorhomes, and travel trailers, as well as pulling other boat and utility trailers. I was a police officer for over 24 years and have a 20 consecutive year safe driving award from the police department. I was a graduate of the Northwestern University Traffic Institute, and the police department safety officer worked for me at one time. As far back as 1972, I took the training to teach defensive driving.

Now I say all that, not to be bragging, but to say that I'm probably not a bad driver, but I still must take a defensive driving course every 3 years to get the insurance premium discount. And even with my experience and training, I find it's not just the dollar savings, I find it to be a very good refresher. And now you can even take such courses on the Internet. The last time my wife and I did it was on the AARP website, since we are members. We're also members of AAA and they have one on their website, but it costs a bit more than the AARP course. And AARP tried to recruit me to teach their classroom course.

In Texas, a person must take a drivers education course in order to get a drivers license at the age of 16 instead of waiting until he/she is 18. However, there is such a thing as a "Parent Taught Drivers Education" that can be taught by a parent, step parent, grandparent, or step grandparent who has a good driving record. To do it honestly, there is a good bit of time and paperwork involved, both book learning as well as behind the wheel learning, but 3 years ago I taught the course to my grandson, and I found such a formal training program to also be good for me, as well as him.

Try it, you'll like it.

Like I said, I don't think I'm a bad driver . . . yet, but I know I'm not as good a driver as I was 30 years ago, and unfortunately, I'll never be as good as I thought I was when I was 18.

MossRoad · May 27, 2008

Bird said:
Try it, you'll like it. Like I said, I don't think I'm a bad driver . . . yet, but I know I'm not as good a driver as I was 30 years ago, and unfortunately, I'll never be as good as I thought I was when I was 18.

I like to say, "The older I get, the better I was."