Railroad Ties for Retaining Wall

ktctest6 · Dec 3, 2003

I need some advice on how to construct a retaining wall using old railroad ties that will be 30 inches high and approximately 30 feet long. The wall will will be 4 ties high. What should I use to to pin the ties together and how deep in the ground should they go? What's the best material to use for the pins? Should each tie be set back from the edge to construct a small backwards slope from the bottom to the top?

Any and all advice will be really appreciated!

CTyler · Dec 3, 2003

Since its' pretty short I don't think you need to do to much to hold it there. There are different construction methods on this from setting it back to using a dead man or poles. I would offset them back.

The question is would you rather have a perfectly straight wall or one that is tiered or offset?

To tie them together you can use landscape spikes. Some peeps have used rebar. You'll need to drill a pilot hole.

Depending on where this wall is located, I.E. next to a patio. You may want to put a heavy plastic like 6mil behind it before backfiling. This keeps dirt from seeping though the ties on onto your patio. You may wish to consider putting some rock down before the backfill for drainage and some perf pipe.
Don't know if this is an issue for you or not.

Youare · Dec 3, 2003

I used 12" spikes to fasten railroad ties together on a small wall I constructed. If I was to do it again I think I would use re-rod to tie them together and drive a length into the ground for the first tier.

On the third tier I would use at least a half length piece of tie every tie lenght perpendicular to the wall back into the bank to hold the wall. Stager the joints as you go up.

Randy

Currmudgeon · Dec 3, 2003

When I've specified timber walls of that height, I've cribbed them. Run timbers perpendicular to the face of the wall, back into the slope, and tie them together with some timbers. For a wall 4 ties high, I'd probably crib the 2nd and 3rd course, staggering the joints like masonry. Actually, the stretcher-header-stretcher layout is Flemish Bond.

This gives you a massive wall that won't tip over. Generally, a depth of 2/3 the height of the wall is enough, but that can be varied some for ease of construction. I like them vertical, but a battered wall looks good to some people. Or you can go hog wild, step them back with exposed dirt on the steps to plant stuff in. You definitely need to crib the latter.

The ties are held together with spikes or rebar driven into drilled holes, usually the latter as you can get rebar anywhere.

I like to place some geotextile or landscape fabric against the back of the wall, and lay in some free-draining gravel to keep the water from behind the wall. For a big wall, or a significant back slope, I'll often lay a 4 inch perf drain along the base, and try to drain the water off somewhere. Otherwise, leave the bottom joints open a bit to act as weeps.

Soundguy · Dec 3, 2003

My stepfather has a bunch of terraces on his property. Wed did some 3 and some 4 and more ties high.

We have used the the 12" spikes, and then tried drilling out/lineing up holes, and using rebar driven downthru.

Off set the tie joints 4" every other one..( in out in out.. etc ).

Like someone pointed out... 30" high is not real bad. Try a tie on the outside of the wall sunk it in the ground to make it even with the 30" wall above ground... place one of these ties at each corner and at each joint... should hold a couple decades..

Soundguy

SPIKER · Dec 3, 2003

that one sound pretty easy, mine I started about two years ago was/is about 60 feet overall, (though I only have about 40 done) is 6 or 7 ties high, but I dug in the first tie below level as a footing holder. Eash consutive tie is stepped back about 3/4 onto hard packed gravel/dirt mix. I set the next tie up 1/4 on bottom tie and 3/4 on the packed mix. I drilled 1/2" hole and hammered in rebar. all joints are offset and it has a nice 1/2 round pattio type garden exposure. I left dirt on the back side and will eventually plant low flowering vine or strawberries in the small openings. the 1/2 round wall will never move and I feel sorry for anyone attempting to tear it out in 30 or so years! hahaha.

I still have some left to do but with my back all messed up I can't man handel the ties anymore.

Also use the AUGER BITS not the SPADE BITS, I got about 10 holes form the spade bits and about 100 out of the augers.

I drilled my bottom corse and hammered in 4' lenghts of rebar, 3~4 per tie. that tie was flush with drive, (rest went up into yard from there) then drilled each tie into the bottom tie, on on each end and if ther was a join one on each side of the joint, if there was more than a 6' span with out a rebar I would drill and installed one. drill and install ENDS first, then drill in the middle after you have the 2 ends pinned where you want them!!! makes it MUCH easier!

I and a friend build a pond (lake) retaining wall back in early 80's with NEW ties, they were easier to drill and pin back then, but it was 4 ties below water level and 3 above. also was slightly rounded. that wall was about 300+ feet long, needless to say we did it all by hand and had to be done before they dammed it back up. Our summer was spent digging & driving rebar... where i LEARED the trade hahaha.

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

GareyD · Dec 4, 2003

Be sure to watch out for them little "S" shaped iron thingies that is driven into the ends of some ties....

Hitting one when you are trying to square up the ends, can really mess up the blade on your saw...

Don't ask me how I know this /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Soundguy · Dec 4, 2003

Your right. Those teraces we did at my stepfathers were
-after- we had torn out the teracing he put in in 1972 when he built his house. Only just this year did enough decay / elements / abuse, etc warrant a remove / replace. And his big retaining wall is holding up his house and a swimming pool, perched on a hill!. Though he cheated. The footer of the house is supported on/by round concrete columns sunk about 20' into the native rock on the hill....

Soundguy

( wall will never move and I feel sorry for anyone attempting to tear it out in 30 or so years! hahaha.
)

tc35dforme · Dec 4, 2003

Some simple points...

1. If you elect to use the galvanized spikes...WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. Those spikes are most often hot dipped galvanized and chunks of the coating love to fly when struck by a hammer. Also, most people tend to use a sledge ( 6-8# ) to drive those big spikes. One glancing blow, and the whole head of the spike will shear off and can be quite painful.

2. I would go with rebar. most home centers now sell it pre-cut at 18" - 20" . I use #4 or #5 and use an undersized auger bit. I like to catch at least 2 courses. The advise on useing long rod to secure the lower courses as a bind to the earth is great. I do the same.

3. When I do a dead-man back into the hill, I always use ( 2 ) and tie them together with a tie across the back. When backfilled, this will never pull out. That cross tie acts as a plow. The dead-man needs to be long enough. A 24" length is no good. I like to go at least as far back as the wall is high and alternately place them at maybe every 4 courses vertically. The lower ones go way back for stability.

4. Backfill must be good stuff...avoid clay soils, too much water absorption and pressure, especially if it freezes. Compact it well as you go up.

5. Have some 'Advil' ready. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

bryce · Dec 5, 2003

I have done retaining walls commercially. Usully an Architect will design the wall. I buy 20' rebar cheap. If I need to cut it, I use a grinder with a metal disc. It pays for itself immediatly.
I have also used a recipricating saw, but only with "Lennox" metal cutting blades. Tie backs are essential to keep the wall from rolling over, or moving down hill. You can always drill holes, and put in concrete piers. Bolt placement is critical with this method. If you are going more than 2 or 3 ties deep with your rebar. Try drilling the holes with bits that get smaller in diameter the deeper you drill. Start with a 1/2", then a 3/8" for the 3rd and 4th tie. This makes it easier to get the bits back out. Going deeper gets a lot more complex, plus the drill has to be Really powerful. (That reads you may wrap around the drill). You can also sharpen the ends of the rebar and use a rebar driver. or get a huge post pounder and put in telephone poles. Or a pile driver and drive in 30' concrete piles. I think I may have gotten into the overkill area. Bob

ktctest6 · Dec 5, 2003

OK - all the info has been great! But, I'm really a beginner at this and I really need to understand some of the terms that ya'll are using - like dead-man and a tie-back. If someone could explain these anchoring terms I would really appreciate it. Sorry to be so slow - but I really want to understand how to do this the right way.

Thanks so much for your patience!

tc35dforme · Dec 5, 2003

Dead-man and tie-back are effectively the same. Think of the face of the wall running North-South. The dead-man is a timber that runs from the face of this wall in the East-west direction ( like the leg on a 'T') back into the hill.

GV40U · Dec 5, 2003

Great information on this thread. How are the tie backs attached to the wall? What materials are used for tie back/deadman? Thanks,

28RedHorses · Dec 5, 2003

Jim,

For my bottom row I would secure it to the ground (after leveling) with 3/4 OD iron pipe. I use sections that are pre-cut to 30 inch lengths and then drill a 3/4 inch hole with a spade bit on the wood every three feet. I use a sledge hammer to pound the pipe into the wood/ground. The fit is tight and works great.

The next couple of rows (I would not go above three rows without using deadmen) I secure with 12 inch spikes.

I do offset the rows by one inch per row.

I've never used railroad ties but have used Pressure Treated Pine and then I give it a coat of Sykins stain. I've had my walls up for two years and they look as new as the day they were installed.

Hope this helps.

28 
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

jinman · Dec 6, 2003

Jim, about two years ago, I built a small retainer wall about twice the length of yours. I thought about using railroad ties because I have a source of ties in very good condition. One of my neighbors suggested I check with a local sawmill because they buy old telephone poles and cut them into 6" x 6" beams. I wasn't looking forward to stacking and handling crossties with their inconsistent surface conditions, splinters, and other irregularities, so I went to the sawmill and bought 280 feet of the 6x6 beams. It was $1.95 per foot, so I put close to $600 into lumber, but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Here's why...

1. The timbers were 11' to 15' feet long and the varied lengths came in handy during construction.

2. The long lengths reduced the number of posts I had to sink into the ground (5 posts sunk 3-1/2 feet deep for over 65' of wall)

3. The 6x6's stacked perfectly with very predictable dimensions.

4. The timbers were easy to cut to length and drill for fasteners without any worry of finding hidden rocks and metal.

5. I think the finished product looks far better than any crosstie wall I've seen.

I'm in Sunset, TX which is about 60 miles north of Fort Worth, but maybe you might find a sawmill in your San Antonio and Austin area which does the same thing. Your cost would be only about 1/2 mine and I think you would like the results. I'm attaching a couple of photos to show you my wall during construction and the finished wall. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

jinman · Dec 6, 2003

...finished wall.

ktctest6 · Dec 6, 2003

You guys are GREAT!! Thanks so much for your detailed descriptions and tips on how to build this wall. I know it's going to be hard work - but with your help - it will be well worth the effort.

Thanks again!