Question about BCS tillers?

[CENT PA]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my questions and gave comments on my questions about the BCS finish mower. I plan on getting one soon. Along with that order I'm considering getting the tiller attachment. I have no doubt (from everything I've read) that the tiller dose a great job on established garden beds. My problem is our garden is not quite "established". Presently we own a Cub Cadet RT65 rear tine tiller. This isn't the best quality tiller but it dose have one nice feature, the ability to switch between forward rotating and reverse rotating the tines (at the gear shift lever). The reverse rotation has been real nice in taming a lot of untilled area on our septic field (for planting grass) and getting our garden started. When the tiller hits a rock or root in just stops or bounces up. In foward rotation it tends to take off (pulling me along) when it hits something. I'm worried that the tractor I'm looking at getting (BCS 740) and 20 inch tiller will do the same thing when it hits something in the ground.

My question is; is it possible (or has anyone tried) moving the handles on the tractor over the engine and running the tiller backward (reverse tine tilling). It would now be a front tine tiller and hopefully not take off when it hits something since the wheels will be pushing in the opposite direction. For all I know the tines may catch something and push the whole thing at me (not good). This dosen't seem to happen on my reverse tine tiller now. In fact just the opposite it's much more controllable.

Thanks again

 

[deerseeker001]

i rented one years back it worked great.you wont be sorry.

 

[farmerboybill]

Hey Cent PA,

I looked around on the net, but couldn't find the tine RPM of your cub. If I were to guess, it has a tine rotation of around 180 rpm. The BCS and Grillo have a rotation of 290 rpm. That means you're getting at least twice as many slices with the BCS and Grillo tillers. Basically, counter-rotating tines aren't necessary. I would NOT recommend trying to use the machine as an impromptu front tine tiller.

The Grillo has several features that make it a superior tiller to the BCS tiller. It has bolo tines built in a helical pattern, tines that can be changed without taking the entire assembly apart, more width options, a better designed depth control, and a better designed, stronger gearbox. The BCS tiller is basically the same tiller they made in the 1980's with a few very minor improvements. Grillo started out as a tiller company and BCS started out as a mower company. They have remained true to their roots.

 

[CENT PA]

farmerboybill,

I just tried to reply to your post but I guess it didn't make it. I'll try again.

180 rpm sounds about right for my tiller (it's not super fast). I think you bring up a good point about a faster tine speed being smooter (or it may take off faster when it hits something). I may be just overthinking it. I've been told that wheel weights and mutiple passes helps.

plumberroy on my last thread (about the mower) suggested looking into Grillo machines. I've just started to check them out. The one big plus I see for BCS is more places to get parts (no Grillo dealers in my area). I was looking at the parts diagram of the BCS tiller on the BCS America website the other day and see what you mean about changing tines. It dosen't look too involved but it's not quick change either. For my purposes it's probabaly not a big deal since I'll only till about 30 min. twice a year.

Dose Grillo put their parts diagrams online?

I may just stick with my tiller for now (although it would be nice to get rid of another engine).

deerseeker001,

It sounds like you were pleased with the BCS tiller you used.

Thanks all

 

[plumberroy]

I know the clutch for the grillo is about 1/4 what a bcs clutch cost . As far as a parts diagram I'm not sure it could be found online in english. The Grillo manual has a good parts diagram. In todays stock as little as possible world I can get parts as fast online as from most shops, if is anything more involved than plugs or filters . I till 1st pass just deep enough to get the grass, about half depth 2nd pass and deep as it will go 3rd time It is still less time than with most reartine tillers . if you do try to go too deep on a pass and the machine jumps , it pushes foward away from you. You will lose your grip on the deadman switch and kill it.
The fact grillo doesn't have as many dealers and not as well known as bcs is why it is cheaper.
If you can work on your own stuff parts are just a phone call or email away
I was looking for belts and blades for a 1993 craftsman GT6000 that I brought from the last place I lived . It was too big for this yard . so after I got the grillo I put new belts and blades on it and sold it to my brother in law sears said it would take 2 weeks to get them , I ordered them off amazon on monday and had them buy thurs. I was told sears only stocks parts for machines made in the last 10 years there was a alkward silence when I ask him if that was all they expected them to last:laughing:
Roy

 

[CENT PA]

plumberroy,

That's funny about the "expecting them to last" comment. That seems to be the problem with newer mass produced equipment. Not just the equipment but the service support.

I started looking into Grillo. They seem pretty close to the BCS equipment. I like the lower price. For my situation I'll be using it as a mower 80% of the time. It looks like Earthtools sells Zanan mowers for the Grillos. These mower sound like they are a little beefer (cast iron gear boxes as opposed to aluminiumn on the BCS). The one big drawback for me is not being able to switch between the bagger and side chute. I would really like to be able to do both. It's not a deal breaker but it would be nice.

As far as parts goes it looks like Earthtools is the only distributor in the US for Grillo. Earthtools seems to be pretty good with stocking parts now but if that changed in the future (or they dropped Grillo from their line-up) it may be an issue. Are there any other sources for Grillo parts?

It sounds like your advice on breaking up untilled ground is similar to what other have said (and i've seen) that several passes are the way to go. The faster tine speed may make having reverse rotation unnecessary.

Thanks again

 

[farmerboybill]

Hey Cent PA,



Earth Tools is the only importer for Grillo in the US, much like BCS America is the only importer for BCS. Both companies are committed to being global. If either distributor went under or quit, I'm fairly certain that the companies would be looking for a new one. In fact, the current importer for BCS is the third one since 1975. You can be sure that something very serious would have to happen for Joel to quit bringing in Grillos or stocking their parts. Plumberroy's experience with Sears shows that any company can quit supporting their equipment, even a firmly established US company. Go to a Deere dealer and ask for parts for a John Deere 1050 built in the 80's - not many available.

Actually, "the way to go" for breaking sod is the rotary plow. The plow will till a garden to full depth in one pass without removing the sod and is gentler on the soild while doing it. I have thrown live earthworms with the plow. They have no chance with a tiller. Unfortunately, it sounds like you'd have a hard time justifying one on the size of your garden. Have you ever considered offering plowing and tilling as a for-hire service?

 

[plumberroy]

Hey Cent PA,
Actually, "the way to go" for breaking sod is the rotary plow. The plow will till a garden to full depth in one pass without removing the sod and is gentler on the soild while doing it. I have thrown live earthworms with the plow. They have no chance with a tiller. Unfortunately, it sounds like you'd have a hard time justifying one on the size of your garden.

I will second that. I grew up in gravely coutry most of my family was born within 20 miles of the original gravely factory . I believe gravely invented the rotary plow . Every one had a gravely it seemed I have used one a lot, if you ain't got the dirt shield on a gravely it will also throw fist sized rocks a ways too.:laughing: You can bet if I ever get a place with enough room to grow the size garden I want I will be heading south to get one.
I haven't run my zanon mower over anything thick enough to bog it down yet I mowed down parts of the old stuff in the garden
Roy

 

[CENT PA]

farmerboybill,

Good point about there being only one BCS importer. I guess I was thinking that with more dealers (each dealer has some stock of parts) that there would be more parts parts total here in the US. I just got a quote for the oil filter on the 740; $38 (ouch!). I suspect since the oil spec isn't that critical that the filter isn't either. It's probably a filter that could be cross referenced at NAPA but I'm not sure. It's making me take a hard look at the Grillo machines (107).

farmerboybill, plumberroy;

I think a rotary plow would be neat but I don't think I can justify it with our small garden (~15' x 30'). I can barley justify the tiller. It looks like it would work good for shallow trenching for irragation lines though. As far as taking on side jobs I think I'll see how things work around our property first. I've got enough project to keep me busy for awhile. A good idea for the right person though.

 

[PGC]

My 30" BCS tiller breaks up hard ground pretty well, though as stated above, multiple passes are the trick. If you hit a root or large rock, YES, it will try to rip you arms out of their sockets, so you need to be ready to just let it go and start again. I'm a professional gardener and I actually purchased a stump grinder to take care of those types of obstacles permanently, and preferably before I hit them with my tiller.

Another way to go about it is to rent a Baretto hydraulic drive tiller for the initial ground breaking. I rented one before I bought my 853 and for hard ground and sod breaking the Baretto cannot be matched (at least I haven't used anything that compares). They are so tough it seems like you could till up concrete with it no problem. The Berta plow would be the best of course, but they're damned expensive, though I do plan to get one eventually due to their ability to create raised beds so easily and to create terraces on hillsides.

My $00.02

One other thing.....I have noticed that my tines come loose after tilling hard ground to if you do it with a BCS tine box check your tines every so often.