Backhoe Pushing trees over with tractor b3200

[TroyR57]

Hey yall its been a while since I've posted, so going back about four weeks, I was able to do a little work with my new to me B3200. I was taking out some large trees, when a little sweetgum took out my tractor hydralics. I have the light material bucket on the tractor, along with a extension on the front edge which makes it a large fulcrum. I had dug around the base of the 14 inch diameter tree, and place my tractor in line with the way I was trying to push it over. While trying to push it over, I heard a large pop, and hyd oil was coming out from under the right fork of the front end loader, I had blowed the metal hyd line to the curle cylinders. I tried to change it out myself, but it was just all tangled up under the frame, so $400 dollars latter I was back in business. It seams that pushing with the backhoe, and the fel bucket down, caused to much pressure for the system to handle, and it was on the back side, this was the return, of the system. Which I guess saved the pump. Photos will be in another post, as my computer can't find file names ever on the first post to tractor by net. I have no ideal why?

 

[TroyR57]

Hope the photos are here, first is digging around tree, then pushing, then how the fel was position, and the location of the boken line is under the 4 in 504. PS, this tree is still standing. It has now died, and it looks like I will have to cut it down first, but waiting a little while before deciding. Also I am posting the trees taken down in reverse order, their are three more to follow.

 

[TroyR57]

So now for the rub, some photos of a larger tree, that I took out with out any problem, execpt lots of time. A 30 inch sweetgum.

 

[TroyR57]

The largest of the trees taken down. Note all the trees had a lean in them, so that I knew there was only one way for them to fall.

 

[DAY]

Check out another post going on today, about Farming with Dynamite. . .:thumbsup::laughing:

 

[MLD]

Ok I'll be the one to ask. Why didn't you cut the tree down first? I realize that you get a tremendous amount of leverage with a standing tree and it will rip
the stump out as in your photos, but that leverage could also kill you. Some how some way, if it can happen it will happen that's been my mantra when I'm doing anything in the woods.

MLD

 

[bikerdib]

There is also the issue of a hidden root that has not been cut which goes under the tractor. As the tree goes over the root flips the tractor. Remote chance of it happening but not impossible. Trees that size have a lot of weight advantage over a B3200.

But isn't it amazing the amount of work these little tractors can do...

 

[beppington]

Wow Troy! That's great! Now come do mine. I don't have a BH

 

[vic4news]

It seams that pushing with the backhoe, and the fel bucket down, caused to much pressure for the system to handle, and it was on the back side, this was the return, of the system.

I also dig and push over trees with my BH when I want to remove the stumps.
If the hoe can't push the tree, the relief valve on the hoe should open. Not sure why your your fel line would have given out?

Vic

 

[LD1]

I also dig and push over trees with my BH when I want to remove the stumps.
If the hoe can't push the tree, the relief valve on the hoe should open. Not sure why your your fel line would have given out?

Vic

Yep, relief valve should open. Unless the OP was using the tractor to "drive" into the tree with the FEL or BH. Because the tractive force can over-come the hydraulics and pop lines. So if the hydraulics arent strong enough to do it, dont use the tractor to push if your push point is coupled to a hydraulic cylinder (IE backhoe of FEL).

An as others have mentioned the EXTREME danger in doing what you are doing. It IS very dangerous. I wouldnt worry too much ip to about the 14" or so tree you took out. But NO WAY would I do a 30" tree with a machine that small. That tree easially weighs 4x more than your tractor and has about 10x's more leverage. That is about 40x's more force than your little B can provide.

It may take more work and more digging, but cutting off first is MUCH safer. Just dont cut @ ground level. If I am planning on digging a stump, I will cut about chest high. Still leaves me about a 4' lever to get the stump out.

 

[TroyR57]

The reason I chose to push the big tree over, is I will be extending the pond that way, and needed the root out of the way, Yes its a big tree, but the lean, only had it going away from me, the others were well with in the little tractors capabilities. On the one that the hyd line broke, you see it just as it was sitting when line broke, it was the fact that the bucket mutlipied the force on the return.

 

[LD1]

The reason I chose to push the big tree over, is I will be extending the pond that way, and needed the root out of the way, Yes its a big tree, but the lean, only had it going away from me, the others were well with in the little tractors capabilities. On the one that the hyd line broke, you see it just as it was sitting when line broke, it was the fact that the bucket mutlipied the force on the return.

So were you using the buckets OWN hydraulics to push??? or were you driving the tractor into the tree with the bucket being the point of contact???

This part is still unclear to me?

Because IF you were using the buckets own hydraulics, it should have popped the PRV long befone it popped a hydraulic line.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I think the problem is a result of the bucket being at too steep of an angle. It puts a tremendous amount of force on the hydraulics when you have the bucket up that steep and start putting any kind of force on it. I don't have a backhoe for my B3200 (yet) but I do run larger TLBs a fair bit for my business. I always like to set the bucket down either flat or only slightly angled down when using the hoe. In that manner there is very little risk of blowing up a cylinder or hose.

I won't comment on the safety of the situation, but I wouldn't be doing it that way. I will say I'm impressed with what you've accomplished with that size hoe.

 

[workinallthetime]

dont look to deep into it guys really, i have a b3030 with less than 300hrs. i have blown 4 hoses while working, the first blew on the bh after 10 hrs. i dont think they put to much effort into putting a high quality hose on our units. Hanging a new hose is easy, i NEVER use factory hoses when i replace them, i can get higher quality and a better price at our local hose repair shop.

When i dig out a tree like that i try and spin the root ball with the bh to tear anything still hanging on off the the trunk, pucker factor is high at times but its worth it

 

[Stonehaller]

From your pictures it looks like you had your loader bucket most of the way curled with bucket edge dug into to ground to help stop the tractor from moving forward when you pushed on the tree with the backhoe. The force of the backhoe tried to curl the loader bucket and built up too much pressure causing the line to blow. The system relief valve will not relieve the pressure as the oil is trapped between the loader valve and the cylinders. If you insist on continuing this method to push over trees, then keep your loader bucket almost flat to the ground.

 

[MikeInEburg]

My method is a bit different. First, I get a long sturdy rope high in the tree and tie it off in the direction that I want the tree to fall. Next, I dig up on three sides of the tree - all sides except the side toward the desired fall direction. Finally, tie the rope to the tractor and pull. Thus far, every tree has fallen slowly and perfectly, with me and the tractor far from the danger zone.
Mike

 

[Ken45101]

From your pictures it looks like you had your loader bucket most of the way curled with bucket edge dug into to ground to help stop the tractor from moving forward when you pushed on the tree with the backhoe. The force of the backhoe tried to curl the loader bucket and built up too much pressure causing the line to blow. The system relief valve will not relieve the pressure as the oil is trapped between the loader valve and the cylinders. If you insist on continuing this method to push over trees, then keep your loader bucket almost flat to the ground.

Putting too much pressure on the hydraulic rams while they are extended is also a good way to bend the rams, a much more expensive problem than just blowing a hydraulic line, at least that's what I've heard, I haven't done it myself.

Ken

 

[LD1]

From your pictures it looks like you had your loader bucket most of the way curled with bucket edge dug into to ground to help stop the tractor from moving forward when you pushed on the tree with the backhoe. The force of the backhoe tried to curl the loader bucket and built up too much pressure causing the line to blow. The system relief valve will not relieve the pressure as the oil is trapped between the loader valve and the cylinders. If you insist on continuing this method to push over trees, then keep your loader bucket almost flat to the ground.

Good catch. I didnt see that but now that you mention it, that looks exactally like what happened. With the force of the bucket trying to dump further, with the valve closed, the hydraulic fluid in the return (curl back) circuit had NO where to go. It is easy to see how the backhoe would over come the loader. The BH is MUCH stronger than the FEL.

Putting too much pressure on the hydraulic rams while they are extended is also a good way to bend the rams, a much more expensive problem than just blowing a hydraulic line, at least that's what I've heard, I haven't done it myself.

Ken

That is correct, but in this case, I think blowing lines is the only thing that can happen because the cylinder was trying to extend. It the force were trying to collapse the cylinder, that is when cylinder rods are bent. Like with the bucket dumped all the way and backdragging.

Fortunatally, the OP didnt have the bucket ALL the way dumped. If he had, there wouldnt have been that hydraulic cushion. It likely would have tore the front off the cylinder or bent the loader.

 

[TroyR57]

Stonehaller has it correct. I was using the front end loader bucket down in the dirt, to keep the tractor from moving forward, while pushing with BH, I have pads on the outrigers, and need to take them off for use in the woods. They allow the tractor to move to much in dirt.