PTO won't engage, then won't disengage

[quicksandfarmer]

I'm stumped and would appreciate any suggestions anyone has. I recently split my Jinma 354 to replace the oil pump. When I put it back together I replaced both clutch disks and the throw-out bearing. I got it together yesterday, and today I was ready to use it for the first time. However, the PTO shaft wasn't turning. With the engine off, and the PTO engaged, I could easily turn the PTO shaft with my fingers. I figured I must have adjusted the PTO clutch improperly -- it was the first time I'd ever done it -- so I opened the inspection window, and the three adjustment nuts were all too tight, I had mis-measured. I loosened them to give a 1mm gap, but still I could turn the PTO shaft by hand. I loosened them to about a 3mm gap, and still the PTO shaft was turning freely.

At this point I figured that I had squashed the spring, and that either it would pop out on its own or I'm going to have to split the tractor again. So I put the front end loader on and spent about 40 minutes moving some stuff around. When I finished, the PTO shaft was turning, and with the engine off I could no longer turn the shaft. Success! I thought, but it was short-lived. Now I have the opposite problem: no matter where I adjust the clutch, from loosest to tightest, I can't get the PTO to disengage.

The drive clutch seems to work fine.

So I have two questions. The first is about the adjustment process for the PTO clutch. My manual only talks about setting the stack height on a bench to 99.6mm, which I couldn't figure out to do. So I've been going on what I read on the internet, which is to adjust for a gap of 1mm on the adjustment nut. Is this gap measured between the adjusting nut and the main pressure plate, or between the main pressure plate and the PTO pressure plate? Is 1mm the correct gap for this clutch?

Second, where do I go? Any thoughts on additional diagnostics? Should I just split it again?

Thanks.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Well I guess I stumped everyone.

I split the tractor today and found that I had put the spring for the PTO clutch in upside down. Oops. I feel not unlike an idiot. For the sake of those who may follow in my footsteps I'm putting my idiocy out on the internet for all to see.

It looks like what happened is that the spring spun freely until it got a little cocked. Fortunately everything looks OK.

The good news is that I am now much better at splitting my tractor. I did it by myself in two hours.

 

[Localmotion]

Glad everything worked out ok - I'll be sure to contact you next time I need to split a tractor :laughing:

 

[Rich Waugh]

You definitely had me stumped with that one; glad you got it figured out and corrected.

Two hours to split it? It would take me longer than that just to work up the nerve to start the process if I had to do it again. (grin) I think i might be able to get mine split in four hours, but I doubt I could do it less. If I had a level concrete floor to work on I might get that time down a bit, but even then I don't think I could hit the two hour mark. That's impressive.

I wonder how long it takes Tommy and his guys to split one?

 

[JerryG]

You can get quick after you do a few. The last 60 hp double clutch job I did I started at 8 AM and pulled it out of the shop at 15 min. until 12 noon ready to deliver.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Glad everything worked out ok - I'll be sure to contact you next time I need to split a tractor :laughing:

OK, but be forewarned that I don't always put things back together right side up!

I wonder how long it takes Tommy and his guys to split one?

When I was googling around trying to figure out what was going on I came upon someone who claimed he could split the tractor by himself in 45 minutes. (see post #5 in this thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/72737-splitting-foton-354-a.html)

It was a lot faster the second time than the first for me, it makes a huge difference knowing what you need to do, and having all of the tools at hand. I wasn't ever stumped or stopped. I just sat down on the left side of the tractor and disconnected everything, then went over to the right side and disconnected everything, then went under and took off the front driveshaft. Next was a transmission jack under the transmission, a hoist over and a jack under the engine and blocks on the tires. Three bolts on the left, three on the right, three on the bottom and one on the top and the transmission was free. If I didn't have to take off the loader mounts I could probably knock 30 minutes off but I can't imagine doing it twice as fast.


I put it back together after lunch, which took longer. I had the damnedest time getting the clutch alignment tool out after the clutch was bolted to the flywheel. Rejoining the transmission to the engine took a few minutes of pushing and jiggling. I readjusted the clutch and used a torque wrench everywhere. I also took the time to verify clutch operation by holding the pedal down with a block of wood while I turned the PTO shaft by hand before I reconnected everything. I knocked off with the final clutch adjustment and the electrical hookup still to do, I found myself getting tired and didn't want to make a mistake on those mentally demanding tasks.

I found good instructions for adjusting the clutch here:
CHINESE TRACTOR WORLD FORUMS - Login

 

[Affordable]

Wow thats impressive !!! It takes us about 6-7 hours total to do a clutch replacement on a 254 or 354 tractor.We could prob. split one in 2 hours, but we take our time to make sure the tractor is supported good, drain all the fluids,ect.

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Wow thats impressive !!! It takes us about 6-7 hours total to do a clutch replacement on a 254 or 354 tractor.We could prob. split one in 2 hours, but we take our time to make sure the tractor is supported good, drain all the fluids,ect.

I feel like I had the home field advantage that I was splitting the same tractor for the second time in four days so I had everything I needed right at hand, I used the same blocks of wood for blocking and the hoist was in position.

The only fluid I drain is fuel. On my tractor (2006 Jinma 354) one of the bolts for the loader bracket is behind the hydraulic pump and I have to unbolt the pump from the engine to remove the bracket. With the pump unbolted it's easier to support it and leave the pipes attached and have it move backwards with the rear end. Same with the diverter valve. I disconnect the power steering lines where they meet the hoses and lose maybe a cup of hydraulic fluid. Those are all the hydraulic lines that cross the midline.