PTO shaft leak any hydro question

[Cbrown9064]

Hi!

Today, I drained the trans, hydro center section and rear on the 861. Pulled the PTO shaft and gave it a new bearing, sleeve and seal. Reached my arm in through the PTO hole and cleaned up what little sludge there was. Cleaned all the crud out from the drawbar receiver and from below the PTO.

Put it all back together and refilled all three with UTF.

Question #1--I still have a tiny leak from the PTO. Appears to be coming from the gasket not the seal. I put a new gasket in, but is this normal? Maybe got one large drop on the garage floor after mowing for 40 minutes.

Question #2--the manual and dipstick say to check hydro fluid level with cylinders extended. Is that lift arms up or down? Also on dipstick it references "pedestal level" with some markings on the opposite side you check the hydro level. Is that to check the oil level on a row crop front ped? If so, curious if you use the hydro dipstick to check, or if it is just the same p/n used in two different places.

Finally, I checked the oil pressure when hot. At idle (which is currently 500-550) it looks to be 15-18psi. At operating speed I get over 40 (cannot remember exactly). I looked in the manuals, but could not find oil pressure specs. Does mine sound OK?

Thanks!
CB

Here are couple pictures pulling the road grader the other day...

 

[Soundguy]

pto flange leak.. virtually unheard of if you used a gasket, and the flange was not damaged. doube check that it is not oil weeping thru the seal and then running down the bearing carrier onto the gasket and dripping. if it IS a gasket leak, jack up rear of tractor.. take 4 bolts out. slide shaft back 2" spray clean the area with carb cleaner and coat the tractor and bearing carrier flange with permatex #2 and then sandwich the gasket betwixt them and go..

the 3pt lift cyl 'extends' to lift the 3pt. that said. there is only about 8-12 oz oil in the 3pt lift cyl. in a 2+ gallon sump.. that ain't muh.. so you can test it down, fine. if you had a laoder or external cyl that was SA.. test it with it extended. nominal sump level is about 2g. you can stiuff another+ in there safely..

yes.. the other side is for a rocrop front pedistal.. remember.. that rowcrop has that hyds dipstick. just yank it out and walk to front an pull the check bolt..e tc.. stick er and go.

15 hot idle is darn low for a red tiger. if it really is 15.. it's still safe. just real low.

the most worn out loosey goosey red tiger i've ever sen has hot oil pressure at 20-25 at idle..

have you replaced your oil pressure gauge? if not.. do so a bad oil gauge can give eratic results.

lastly.. what oil? 10w30? or? in your area.. you probably don't have much choice.. 15w40 may be too thick in winter.. though 10w40 may be the ticket if your hot idle oil pressure is 15.

in the end. 15 is good enough to keep metal from clacking.. 6 psi per 1000 rpm or so is bare minimum.. as a rule of thumb,

 

[Cbrown9064]

Thanks for the reply and the info!

Running Rotella 15w-40 in the crankcase now. Checked the hot idle again today and was getting about 21psi. Perhaps the gauge is wacky?

Wondering if I put the oil seal in the bearing carrier wrong. I put the side with the spring facing out. Perhaps that is the issue? Did not get a chance to fully investigate before leaving the lake, but will take another look next week. The bearing carrier and tractor were whistle clean when it went back together, but the new gasket was pretty thin. They came in a 10-pack of gaskets so perhaps a guy should have put two in? That seems weird.

Will check out where it is leaking better and report back. Am I going to have to drain the rear and the hydro again if I have to pull the PTO shaft? Or can I park it severely down hill. If I have to drain again, no big deal. Just wondered if there was a shortcut.

Thanks!
Chris B.

 

[Soundguy]

seal in backwards.

spring always goes toward oil. ie.. open side of cup aiming in. the seal you put in will wear out very soon, if not already.

pointing nose downhill helps very litt.e your pto shaft goes thru a sealed sump.

if you have utf in hyds and diffy.. don't worry.. pull it. then check diffy and hyds level afterwards. diffy MAY be overfull and hydro low. hydro can be up to 1g high with no issues.

1 paper gasket is fine.. it's a non pressurized sump.

if you do pull.. clean both flanges.. use new gasket and permatex on both sides to be sure.

 

[Cbrown9064]

Thanks Soundguy! The seal was "open" on both sides...I suppose that is what confused me. It didn't have the typical flat side/open side. Arrgghhh...

Are you saying pull the shaft without draining? Or drain just the rear?

 

[Soundguy]

pulling the shaft will mingle the hydro and gear sumps. not much if any will spill unless hydro is real full or diffy is real full. you can back the rear up on a block of wood under the tire if you like then pull.

seal open on both sides? i'd have to see a pic. I'm not following. one side has to be clsed with a web.. otherwise you have 2 concentric circles and nothing inbetween. you don;t have 2 seals back to back do you?

 

[Cbrown9064]

You know how a normal seal has the flat part on one side and then the "open" side with the spring? This was a TISCO seal and there was no "flat" side. Imagine viewing a cross section and the metal would look like a T, as opposed to looking like a L. I will have to shoot you a pic. Going to the CNH dealer and seeing if they have any seals, instead of mail order again.

On the sumps, perhaps drain the rear into a clean bucket (have a new one the fluid came out of) and then pull shaft and top off both sections to appropriate levels after shaft back in?

Thanks again for all the help. It makes a world of difference!

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. you can drain the rear into a bucket and then top it off. some of the center section may dump into the rear when you pull it.. so after draining repalce plug.. then pull. then top rear off to correct level.. then any extra can go in hydro.

erird on T profile seal. in any case. spring and lip goes toward oil.. if you are lucky maybee you can press it out without deforming it, and flip is so the spring goes toward oil.

last cnh seal i bought was 'normal' cup shaped. maybee they changed them? If it seals.. it seals..

 

[Cbrown9064]

Hi! Here is a pic of the CNH seal I bought today. Way better looking than the Tisco one I put in backwards. I will have to grab a pic when I pull the other one out and post it. For the extra couple of bucks I think the CNH seal is worth it.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. that's the common seal i have been using a while now. open end w/ spring towards oil.

that tisco one sounds like junk! witht he way it was built.. no wonder you slipepd it in wrong.

shame on tisco!