I'm thinking about buying a PTO driven generator to run behind my tractor. I have searched the Internet for information on PTO Generators and found quite a range of types and costs for PTO generators. I've also found a lot of technical information, which quite frankly goes over my head. I'm hoping folks here might be able to help provide information on brands they consider good values, based on things a good generator should have and what to avoid. Also, if you know of a reputable dealer (I live in the Pacific Northwest) I would appreciate that too. Thanks for any information you can provide. Randy
Generator PTO Generator for my YM2420D (28HP)
- Thread starter Randy_248
- Start date
- Views: 6457
gerard
Veteran Member
My 2 cents worth of knowledge is you're at the lower hp range for being able to get one. Smallest I've seen put out 13kw and need 25 pto hp for that. Upside is you only need that for max output which is not likley you'll ever need. I would make sure I got one with a volt meter as you'll need that to make sure you have the rpm on the tractor to get the 110-120 volts you need for house current and then I'd make sure I got the trailer mount or would be able to rig one up. You should be able to get one in the $1200-1500 range.
lpigott
Gold Member
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.northerntool.com>http://www.northerntool.com</A> /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif has several sizes and even trailers for them. They say there 12,000 watt unit requires 16 HP for full power. If you get one post and tell us how you like it. I've been wanting one too. The 13000 watt in the attached picture is on sale for $999.00/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
Attachments
patrickg
Veteran Member
Some good looking gennys. They are a little sloppy in their writeups. On the 13KW gen they claim 100 inch copper windings. Check the other gens. I bet they mean 100% copper. Also they say on some of the gens that you can get 100% of the output as 120 volt AND SIMULTANEOUSLY get 100% of the rated output as 240 volt. They don't make that claim for the 13KW unit but they don't make it real clear to the uninitiated that you can't get 10 lbs out of a 5 lb sack.
None of my nitpicking is to say that it isn't great equipment. I'd be happy to get any of them for Christmas, or Thanksgiving, or St. Patrick's day or... I did a rough calc and determined that if I maxed out my L4610 I could make 20KW. Realistically, for me, a 20KW unit delivering no more than 15KW would be about as much as I would want to manage for an extended period.
Everything is tradeoff and compromise but there is one thing you lose right from the begining when you substitute your tractor + PTO gen for a stand alone engine driven gen. (Dramatic p a u s e ...)
LOAD REGULATION Irrespective of the stiffnes of the torque curve on your diesel tractor, under varying loads the output of the gen will fluctuate considerably. For example: You have a power outage and you want to run your frige and freezer for a while to keep from losing food AND while you are at it you might as well cook supper at the same time and catch the early evening news. Maybe you'll let the tractor run a bit longer (to make sure about the food in the freezer- big $) and what the heck while you have power you can do some microwave popcorn and watch a movie with the family. You are a great guy, really looking out for the family and protecting them from inconvenience during the power outage by your forethought in having a PTO gen to use.
Well, when the microwave or oven or stove top (assuming electric) cycles on/off or the frige or freezer cycle on/off this varies the load on the gen but there is no feedback mechanism to regulate the throttle so output varies a bunch. If you are lucky your big screen TV and or satellite system or the kid's computer won't be harmed. Part of the time you'll have brownout conditions (bad for compressor appliances like heatpumps, frige, freezer) and part of the time you'll have overvoltage conditions which are bad for delicate electronic stuff as well as everything else but a toaster or steam iron. There is no single throttle setting that will work with a varying load. You gonna sit in the tractor for hours staring at the voltmeter and adjusting the throttle? You got a heated cab? I do, but no way will I be the voltage/rpm governor genie.
We need some of our mechanical/automotive geniuses to design a throttle adjustment servo system that can be mfg cheaply for retrofit to a wide variety of tractors. It could work off the gen output and regulate that or it could act as a governor to hold RPM constant.
Or alternatively, you could use an integrated engine driven generator. They have built in regulation that adjusts the throttle as load changes and your tractor is still available as an emergency vehicle to go through deep snow or to snow plow or whatever. Standby generators can be easily fitted with auto start and a transfer switch to power designated circuits with the gen. My dream instalation is an engine driven combination welder/generator that can be hooked up for autostart and has an automatic transfer switch but can be easily unplugged and transported for use as a portable welder/generator. I realize that in a power outage I need to plug it into the house and not run around the place welding but I could sacrifice a few days of weldability (our lengthy power outages are usually ice storm related and I don't enjoy welding in ice storms anyway). Lightening caused outages are usually too short in duration to endanger frozen food but I don't weld outside in thunderstorms, so again, not much conflict.
Your mileage may vary.
Patrick
None of my nitpicking is to say that it isn't great equipment. I'd be happy to get any of them for Christmas, or Thanksgiving, or St. Patrick's day or... I did a rough calc and determined that if I maxed out my L4610 I could make 20KW. Realistically, for me, a 20KW unit delivering no more than 15KW would be about as much as I would want to manage for an extended period.
Everything is tradeoff and compromise but there is one thing you lose right from the begining when you substitute your tractor + PTO gen for a stand alone engine driven gen. (Dramatic p a u s e ...)
LOAD REGULATION Irrespective of the stiffnes of the torque curve on your diesel tractor, under varying loads the output of the gen will fluctuate considerably. For example: You have a power outage and you want to run your frige and freezer for a while to keep from losing food AND while you are at it you might as well cook supper at the same time and catch the early evening news. Maybe you'll let the tractor run a bit longer (to make sure about the food in the freezer- big $) and what the heck while you have power you can do some microwave popcorn and watch a movie with the family. You are a great guy, really looking out for the family and protecting them from inconvenience during the power outage by your forethought in having a PTO gen to use.
Well, when the microwave or oven or stove top (assuming electric) cycles on/off or the frige or freezer cycle on/off this varies the load on the gen but there is no feedback mechanism to regulate the throttle so output varies a bunch. If you are lucky your big screen TV and or satellite system or the kid's computer won't be harmed. Part of the time you'll have brownout conditions (bad for compressor appliances like heatpumps, frige, freezer) and part of the time you'll have overvoltage conditions which are bad for delicate electronic stuff as well as everything else but a toaster or steam iron. There is no single throttle setting that will work with a varying load. You gonna sit in the tractor for hours staring at the voltmeter and adjusting the throttle? You got a heated cab? I do, but no way will I be the voltage/rpm governor genie.
We need some of our mechanical/automotive geniuses to design a throttle adjustment servo system that can be mfg cheaply for retrofit to a wide variety of tractors. It could work off the gen output and regulate that or it could act as a governor to hold RPM constant.
Or alternatively, you could use an integrated engine driven generator. They have built in regulation that adjusts the throttle as load changes and your tractor is still available as an emergency vehicle to go through deep snow or to snow plow or whatever. Standby generators can be easily fitted with auto start and a transfer switch to power designated circuits with the gen. My dream instalation is an engine driven combination welder/generator that can be hooked up for autostart and has an automatic transfer switch but can be easily unplugged and transported for use as a portable welder/generator. I realize that in a power outage I need to plug it into the house and not run around the place welding but I could sacrifice a few days of weldability (our lengthy power outages are usually ice storm related and I don't enjoy welding in ice storms anyway). Lightening caused outages are usually too short in duration to endanger frozen food but I don't weld outside in thunderstorms, so again, not much conflict.
Your mileage may vary.
Patrick
em14
Platinum Member
I was just wondering why you would want a PTO driven generator for your standby power... it would appear to me that it would be better to have a standby wired into your house ready to go when the need arises ... a stationary standby would be engineered to handle the varible loads and can some can respond with little or no delay ... of course all this cost bucks ... but I guess that's what all this boils down to ...
lpigott
Gold Member
I think Patrick must have had a few beers before he made that long complicated post....whew/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Ok heres the way it works. I work offshore on oil rigs so half of my life my electricty is coming directly from a generator. No generator runs at a variable speed. They all must run at a constant speed for rated voltage output and more importantly hertz or cycles. So in order to have your generator turn at 60 cycles you would have to regardless of the load have the input shaft turning at 540 RPMs on a PTO driven unit. Thus you set the rpm on your tractor to exactly where you have 540 rpms on your PTO. There will not be enough variance due to load changes to hurt anything. The advantage of a PTO gen over a stand alone unit is that you can get twice the power output for half the price(you are not buying another engine). The PTO unit could also be used to power an electric welding machine giving you a portable welding machine without having to buy yet another engine. Basically it lets you use your very good diesel engine in your tractor and forgo the expence of buying and maintance on 3 engines. Finally, a 10KW or 10000 watt generator will supply enough power to run a complete house under normal situations especially if do not run your AC units.
Re: PTO Generator my experience
i have a NH 1520 with 19 pto hp, i run a 25 kw pto generator, it will give me about 1 kw for each 2 hp as will all the other pto gensets. so it give me about 8kw.
i can run the entire house extremely easily on 8kw including refrig. freezer, 1hp well pump,furnaces, lights, microwave, computers, sat system and tv's.
as far as power regulation, my generator has a frequency meter built into it, it is vueable from the tractor seat. i can set the frequency for about .7% over the 60hz and when i kick everything on a once it will dip to 59hz for startup then settle down to 60 hz. so i dont have to play speed regulator ever. you have so much mass and torque on your diesel and generator combined that the start-ups and the motor stops dont cause that much of a power fluctuation. i have tried this with my setup so i know how it will react. your milage may be different. my pto generator weighs about 500 lbs without the trailor. that is a lot of mass to handle the power fluctuations compared to a small gas unit. i dont have a particuarly large tractor but it has no trouble handling the house easily.
do you think that a small gas driven generator will handle a load of about 60 amps put on it all at once any better, i doubt it. in fact i know it as i have had a few different generators over the years- from 500 watt to 10,000 watt stand alone sets. the only draw backs i see for a tractor driven model is that if you need the tractor for other things, or if you are away a lot and your wife/kids cant get the generator hooked to the tractor.
if the generator does not have a frequency meter then it would be wise to invest in one so you can regulate the power yourself. i have found that the frequency is much more sensitive indicator of the current than the volt meter. frequency meters are very easy to use, i was able to buy a plug in model from radio shack. just plug it in and you can check the frequency at the generator or inside the house at an outlet. digital readout. get one as it will help you a lot in initially regulating your generator no matter which kind you go for.
next you need to get the power into the house. have you thought about that. i have used a gentran pannel from northern tool. one that has the preinstalled breakers works well for a small house, the larger pannels that take your own mix of breakers works wonderfully. i would reccomend either depending on your needs. since i have a well pump i went with the larger pannel. i hade a smaller pannel place in a guest house. both work very well. THEY ARE THE SAFEST WAY TO SWITCH FROM LINE TO GEN POWER, EASY FOR YOU TO SHOW YOUR WIFE AND KIDS TO USE. you wont risk electrocuting anyone with them.
alex
i have a NH 1520 with 19 pto hp, i run a 25 kw pto generator, it will give me about 1 kw for each 2 hp as will all the other pto gensets. so it give me about 8kw.
i can run the entire house extremely easily on 8kw including refrig. freezer, 1hp well pump,furnaces, lights, microwave, computers, sat system and tv's.
as far as power regulation, my generator has a frequency meter built into it, it is vueable from the tractor seat. i can set the frequency for about .7% over the 60hz and when i kick everything on a once it will dip to 59hz for startup then settle down to 60 hz. so i dont have to play speed regulator ever. you have so much mass and torque on your diesel and generator combined that the start-ups and the motor stops dont cause that much of a power fluctuation. i have tried this with my setup so i know how it will react. your milage may be different. my pto generator weighs about 500 lbs without the trailor. that is a lot of mass to handle the power fluctuations compared to a small gas unit. i dont have a particuarly large tractor but it has no trouble handling the house easily.
do you think that a small gas driven generator will handle a load of about 60 amps put on it all at once any better, i doubt it. in fact i know it as i have had a few different generators over the years- from 500 watt to 10,000 watt stand alone sets. the only draw backs i see for a tractor driven model is that if you need the tractor for other things, or if you are away a lot and your wife/kids cant get the generator hooked to the tractor.
if the generator does not have a frequency meter then it would be wise to invest in one so you can regulate the power yourself. i have found that the frequency is much more sensitive indicator of the current than the volt meter. frequency meters are very easy to use, i was able to buy a plug in model from radio shack. just plug it in and you can check the frequency at the generator or inside the house at an outlet. digital readout. get one as it will help you a lot in initially regulating your generator no matter which kind you go for.
next you need to get the power into the house. have you thought about that. i have used a gentran pannel from northern tool. one that has the preinstalled breakers works well for a small house, the larger pannels that take your own mix of breakers works wonderfully. i would reccomend either depending on your needs. since i have a well pump i went with the larger pannel. i hade a smaller pannel place in a guest house. both work very well. THEY ARE THE SAFEST WAY TO SWITCH FROM LINE TO GEN POWER, EASY FOR YOU TO SHOW YOUR WIFE AND KIDS TO USE. you wont risk electrocuting anyone with them.
alex
em14
Platinum Member
Thanks … I just would not want my tractor tied up during an emergency .. and yes I know that a generator must run at a constant speed but it must also be able to compensate for the changes in the electric load such as when freezers, refrigerator, etc. come on line. Perhaps the tractor's govner can handle the increases in the load. Normally you want to get the best life out of a generator by sizing it to the expected load. If your rig can handle that and you don’t see a need for the tractor during those times, this would be an excellent solution. There have been a few times when I would have loved to have an electrical power source. As I said, It is a matter of choice and like they say, “that’s what makes horse races”. In this case I think it’s as much personal preference and on the size units you are taking about, and the loads they may expect, it may be 6 of one and ½ dozen of the other … anyway thanks for the insight …
ns_in_tex
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2002
- Messages
- 914
- Location
- East Texas
- Tractor
- Kubota L4610 HSTC, International 2400, Hesston 1280,
I decided to try PTO model because I had trouble getting a dedicated generator to run after long set up periods, & I normally keep my tractors running.
I bought a 17 KW from these people. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.ntelos.net/~gener8s/GenPow.html>click here</A> have run 15 KW heat unit with it with Kubota L4610. Works fine. 35 KW surge.
I bought a 17 KW from these people. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.ntelos.net/~gener8s/GenPow.html>click here</A> have run 15 KW heat unit with it with Kubota L4610. Works fine. 35 KW surge.
Mike_S
Silver Member
Whereas the other responses to your posting are in regard to technical issues about power generation, my comment concerns my experience with a product purchased from Norther Tool. After purchasing a professional belt-driven powerwasher and having some issues with its design, a bolt that keeps shearing off of the Honda engine and the pump losing power, I contacted Northern Tool which basically then disowned me as a customer and referred me to the actual manufacturer of the unit. I don't dislike Northern Tool because it was partially my fault for not asking an important question at the time of purchase, but you should be aware that if you have problems with a PTO generator sold by them, there is a possibility that, in the event of problems, you MIGHT have to also deal with the manufacturer instead of the company whose badge is on the unit--at least it would be worth asking the salesperson about warranty responsibilities.