proof of sex

[virgil]

Last night my little brother shot a 10 point. About 5:30 pm.
He promptly taged the critter according to state law. He then gutted it (removing the testicals),and cut its head off.

Loaded his prize up in the pickup, droped the head off at the taxidermist, and took the carcus to the processing plant.

Well, the game warden was there. inspected the carcus,and the tag. Game warden was not nearly as happy as my little brother. The animal was taged as a buck. But there was no prof that it was a male. After the search of his pickup which the law officer found 2 radios, and a "head light" that I had given him. The head light is one of those lights that you put on your head like a miner.

Many questions from the peace officer.... Were you alone? (yes sir) --then why do you need the radios?
When did you harvest this animal? (about 5:30) Then what are you doing with this spotlight? ( to help me field dress the animal in the dark)
Now tell me again where is the head..
Why did you cut it off?

on and on and on.

Little brother got a ticket because he had removed all LEGAL proof of sex of the deer.

My brother and I are avid hunter and fishermen..,, WE OBEY ALL GAME LAWS THAT WE KNOW ABOUT... This ticket will be costly and will have ramafications for several years to come. You better KNOW what you can and cannot do out there...

 

[MikePA]

Link to Texas Hunting requirements regarding the handling of the carcass.

The following is considered proof of sex and must accompany the carcass until it reaches its final destination and is finally processed:

the head (skinned or unskinned) of a buck deer with antlers attached;


In PA, you can gut the deer and cut off the glands on the legs (I forget what they are called), but that's pretty much it. While I empathize with your brother, what was the game warden supposed to do? There was no way he could determine the gender of the deer.

 

[virgil]

i am in no way,belittling, chastising, or even, questioning the actions of the peace officer involved. they have a dangerous, and very important job to do.

Read the last few lines of my last post. "you better know what you can and cannot do out there."

my little brother screwed up, and its going to cost.

we all must obey the game law, to insure that our sons and daughters can enjoy the great outdoors.

i love animals-they taste good!

virgil

 

[Junkman]

This isn't rocket science. If the carcase is still whole, he can have a veterinarian check to determine the sex. The female will still have all of the parts internally. Your brother needs to learn to think on his feet when problems arise. Sure he was wrong in not knowing the law, but there is still time to remedy some of the situation. He is entitled to a hearing and a proper autopsy by a veterinarian is his best bet to saving his hide from further problems. In fact, the person that butchered the animal might even be able to determine the sex of the animal if he has any amount of experience. He might not get away with everything, but at least he can prove the sex of the animal and that will go a long way to getting out of hot water on the other charges. Since when is it illegal to have a flashlight or a 2 way portable radio in your truck? If that is the case, I am headed to jail, and I am not even a hunter.

 

[Bird]

Junkman, if I understand it right, the young man did not get a ticket for having a deer of the wrong sex, but for violating the provision in the law that was quoted by Mike in his post; i.e., having removed the identifying parts. So proving the sex of the deer would have no bearing on the case.

 

[stevenf]

Virgil
I have a hunting ranch in Boerne, Texas and I try to stay up on the game laws of Texas to make sure my hunters have the correct information and to make sure they abide by the law. I know you probably realize this but just to let you know your brother was totally in the wrong this time. You can try to go to the taxidermist and get him to sign a sworn statement and possibly appear in court with your brother as there are some pretty lenient judges out there if they think you were trying to do the right thing.
If you have questions on Texas game laws go to www.tpwd.state.us and look at the 2004-2005 regs they haven't changed for a long time on this subject. When you drop off the head the tag stays with the carcass you also get a proof of sex receipt from the taxidermist and attach a wildlife resource document to the head. I'm surprised the taxidermist didn't require a WRD as if he gets caught without it he can be fined also, because he wouldn't need to have very many unmarked heads to be in big duty with the game warden. I'm sorry your brother got caught but if your going to hunt in Texas or any other state you need to know the game laws. I'm no professional but I'd sure hate one of my hunters to get in trouble with the game warden as they are very helpful in matters concerning poachers and if you ever have any questions concerning wildlife or game laws ask a game warden they are happy to spend hours with you showing you how to do something game related.
Seriously you should have a leg up on the taxidermist as it doesn't sound like he got the WRD from your brother and I'd consider asking him nicely to appear in court with your brother unless he'd like it to accidently come out that he doesn't require one to drop a head off at his business. I've heard many cases of people just like your brother going to court and having their fines reduced or forgiven by the state as long as you can show that you were trying to do the right thing.
Steve

 

[EddieWalker]

Bird, you're exactly right.

Every state I've hunted in has pretty much the exact same law about leaving proof of sex attached to the larges portion of the animal. If you bone it out, then you leave it on one of the hams.

Most hunters don't read the regs very carefully and just keep doing what they were taught form those who have been doing the same thing for generations. Laws change and us hunters need to be aware of the current rules every season.

I'm sorry about the fine, but if the warden wanted to push the issue, he could start confiscating things. Once he's done that, then you have to prove you deserve to get them back in front of a judge.

Congrats on the buck!

 

[Freds]

I agree. Obviously the whole thing is set up so that the game warden either issues a ticket, arrests you or keeps on walking. They want money, not drawn out court cases with expert "teste"monials (in this case). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Where I live we also had/have laws governing fileting fish in your boat before getting back to dock (it's been a while)... Maybe something to do with counting or species identification???

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( we also had/have laws governing fileting fish in your boat before getting back to dock )</font>

So does Texas. The game warden better be able to see what species it is and what size it is.

 

[beenthere]

What do the game laws say your brother was supposed to do?

Leave a ******** hanging on?
Not remove the antlered head until....?

What about getting the head from the taxidermist to match the head and the carcass for proof of what he did? The cuts in the hide should match. Seems worth it to me, if that was the real story (and I assume it was).