Problem with aftermarket spindles - Ford Jubilee

bkeith85 · Nov 21, 2019

I'm having some trouble with the spindles I just bought for my Dad's 53 Ford Jubilee. This is the second set I've bought. I sent the first ones back because they weren't machined correctly. I ordered a pair from a different supplier and these are the same way. Both places tell me they have sold lots of them with no complaints. So I need to know what the trick is to get these to work. Compared to the old ones, the shaft that goes through the hub is just too short. If I assemble it without the seals, I can just barely get a thin cotter pin through the hole. The correct sized pin will not fit. I measured the old ones and the new ones are about 1/8" shorter. I thought I might have the wrong castle nut, so I ordered new ones and new tab washers. The new washers are thicker than the old ones, so those won't work and the grooves in the nuts are too shallow, so I can't even see the cotter pin hole using the new stuff.

The other problem is these weird seals they sell for the hubs. With the seals in, the hub won't go on all the way to let the inner bearing seat. If I tighten it down, I can get a cotter pin in, but then the hub barely turns because the seal has to be compressed about 1/8" at this point. These are the same seals that everyone uses and they are installed with the rubber to the spindle face. I found some better looking seals from another company and will try those when they get here. They look more like a regular dust seal with a thinner edge, not the thick block of square rubber like these.

More info: I have one old hub and one new one. The old hub is using the old bearings, which were still good. The new hub got new bearings and races. It was listed as fitting Ford 8N and NAA, so it should be right. I did not order a bearing "set", I just bought bearings by the numbers at the parts store. Do they make special bearings that are thinner to work with these funky spindles? Both hubs fit the same, so I don't think that is the problem. I pressed the bearings in, so they should be seated all the way.

I've been stuck with an unusable tractor for about a month now and I don't know what to do. Has anyone here bought new spindles and gotten them to fit right?

bkeith85 · Nov 21, 2019

Well, the new spindles fit great in the ends of the axle, but my problem is between the hub and the spindle. All those parts are new. I bought spindles for a Jubilee/NAA, a new hub for a Jubilee, and have the correct bearings. All those parts should fit together right, but they don't. They're close, but just not what I am used to when adjusting wheel bearings. I think I can make it work if the seals I ordered fit better. Does everyone else just crank down on them and not worry about them spinning freely? It's not like you'll be spending a lot of time at high speed on a tractor, so maybe that's ok.

These are the same spindles that fit an 8N, so if anyone has any advice, I'd like to hear whether you had any trouble or not.

bcp · Nov 21, 2019

I would measure the old and new bearing thickness, and the old and new hub bearing seat separation distance, and the old and new spindle length in places. There is a difference somewhere.

Bruce

bkeith85 · Nov 22, 2019

I did. The difference is about 1/8" toward the back end of the spindle. It's either between the areas where each bearing rides, or just that it isn't machined back far enough. Overall length from the seal surface face out to the tip is 1/8" shorter. From there to the cotter pin hole is shorter by the same amount. I made a template of the old spindle and compared it to the new one and they have the same profile, but the new one is just shorter. There is also more meat at the back end behind the round face where the seal rides. On the new spindle, it is thicker there. If I could just machine it back more, I would, but my lathe isn't big enough. Plus, I shouldn't have to re-machine a new replacement part. I'll try to post some pictures this weekend.
I've checked two pairs of spindles, from different suppliers and they are the same. Maybe there is a bad run of spindles and I just happened to get bit twice.

jaxs · Nov 22, 2019

You could be right about a bad run that was sent to both places you bought from. Can you either (A) drill new holes for cotter key 3/32 to 1/4 farter out on spindle or (B) cut slots deeper in nuts? I would not tighten down any more than you do on car/truck to get them to fit.

bkeith85 · Nov 22, 2019

Possibly. The cotter pin hole is pretty close to the end, so I may not be able to do that. But, it only has to be slightly further out, not the full 1/8". So maybe I can. Then I could do it right, since the holes in these spindles aren't even drilled on center. I guess you get what you pay for.
I've also thought about facing a little off the back of the nut, which would be like filing all the slots deeper but with less effort.
I also have the problem of only one OE nut. The other side had one of those plain nuts with the thin stamped "crown" that holds the cotter pin. It doesn't fit as well, but it is still better than the new nuts I bought. I guess I could machine those, but I hate to give up too much on the thread engagement. I think I can find another of the original style nuts. I bet they are the same as early ford cars and trucks and I may have one lying around to try.

jaxs · Nov 22, 2019

Machine shop is above my paygrade but you obviously have enough experience to spot a fallacy before trying it.

Are you sure (A) the machined shoulder in hub where outer cone seats is clean and not stopping cone short of being fully pressed in? You said spindle is too large but can the hub be set up on your lathe? If so,dress the outer cone seat in hub to make sure there's no burs. I "THINK" you could also cut the stop shoulder to alow cone to seat deeper.

bkeith85 · Nov 22, 2019

That could be an option. I hadn't really thought of cutting that shoulder back. I'll have to look at it and see if there is enough meat in the hub. Of course, both hubs are packed full of fresh grease....
If I have to clean them out again to fix it, then that's what I'll do.
I should have time this weekend to explore my options.

bkeith85 · Nov 25, 2019

I worked on it this weekend and found several small things that were causing the problem. It turns out, I had one of the new nuts had slots that weren't deep enough and some of the washers were really thick. Also, the old bearings had more wear, so they allowed a little more room. I just swapped parts around until I found a good combination that fit each side. I think it is going to work out ok. I think my biggest problem was the seals. They were just too thick and stiff. I got the new ones and they fit much better.

The new ones on the left aren't as tall and they have a thinner lip that is more pliable, so they compress easily. I was able to adjust the bearings and still have them turn without a lot of resistance.
Those seals were hard to find. I had looked around for a few weeks before I found them. I only found one company selling them.