Pricing out a tractor and implements

L47TLBwannabe · May 13, 2019

So originally I wanted a Kubota TLB in the 45-50 h.p. class but Kubota Canada doesn't seem like they really want to sell one all that badly with how their pricing is and there isn't much in the used market in Canada right now that's easily financed. So I'm looking at conventional compact tractors two that I have looked at fairly closely that have good dealer back up are Kioti and New Holland. Currently I'm investigating a 35h.p. size New Holland Boomer I'm curious as to how the backhoe option mounts to the tractor if its anything like the Kioti I don't want it as I watched a few video's on youtube of guys digging with them and the mount seemed kinda flimsy to me. The Kubota's seem to have a stronger mount system and my friend has a Kubota L2800 with the BH77 and that's a nice system. I tried out a Kioti CK3510 on Friday just fitted with a loader and a cab it seemed like a pretty nice tractor and well built a bit light than what I'm use to, but again I don't want it to be too heavy especially if I do decide to get a stump grinder and have to go in people's backyards. I'm also pricing out a bushhog style mower, and a box blade. My reason for buying a tractor is so I can work for myself its a little less costly than a skid-steer and or a mini-excavator. I'd still kinda like a backhoe attachment for trenching in shallow utilities, building septic fields and installing irrigation lines. I had a preference for the Kubota TLB series backhoes for quite a while as they are properly set up for more commercial type work with their pump set up and not having to change seats every time you need to reposition the machine. Just Kubota Canada doesn't like financing a used machine and a new one is so costly.

Jchonline · May 19, 2019

How wide are the gates to people’s backyards in Canada? Here in the states it is a real problem to get any equipment in a back yard. This is where a mini-ex shines.

Perhaps just rent a machine for awhile to see what you like. If you already have jobs this will give you an idea of what works and what doesnt. It seems like you are buying a machine and trying to fit jobs to it, but in reality it will be the opposite.

I do agree on the BH submount. The rectangle bar system on some of these tractors is a poor design and can break at the weld points. Especially if you are putting commercial level hours on the machine.

Code54 · May 19, 2019

Yep, the commercial level TLBs from Kubota are costly BUT they are extremely well made and suited to everyday use. A standard tractor backhoe is fine for lighter work but not for commercial work. If you plan to dig stumps, and dig frequently a true TLB is the better bet even though more expensive.

Jchonline is absolutely correct in that the job dictate the machine - if you are going to be in smaller yards a small mini Ex is 10x better. Yesterday I was working in a townhouse and digging a drain line and my little BX25 was almost too big for the area we were working in. Lucky for me I had no gates to deal with! People love to gate the yard for the dog but never think that they may need a machine in their someday. Even a 48" gate would make things much easier. You hear people say well that is the contractors problem but what they fail to understand is you are passing that hassle on to the customer in that they have a high estimate since you need different Eqpt, or more time to do a job since you cant get something through the gate.

L47TLBwannabe · May 19, 2019

In the city's yards are very small and difficult to access but I don't live in the city I live about 45 minutes away in a small town that is growing slowly. There are a lot of acreages and small and large farms around here and a number of other small towns in the area where the yards are generally larger than in the big city. Buying this tractor is really a gateway for me to get in to running my own excavating business. This week I'll be signing my life away on a new Kioti CK3510HST with a loader, cab with a/c and heat, 60" bushhog style mower, 66" box blade, and 60" tiller. I might still get the stump grinder as I feel it could be a potentially good revenue stream despite costing $6,000. And in a couple weeks I will be getting my septic field installers course, if and when any septic jobs come up my boss said I can rent his ZX160LC Hitachi excavator until I have a enough business coming in that I can afford my own excavator. If I do take on any jobs in confined back yards there are a number of rental outfits in the area where I can just about any machine I might need.

Jchonline · May 20, 2019

So none of your business will come from the city? Just saying think bigger. Are you getting a backhoe on the tractor? If so is the digging depth/reach enough to reasonably dig septic fields?

nards444 · May 20, 2019

just seems all of the business stuff is better suited for an Ex to begin with.

Tennsawdust · May 20, 2019

nards444 said:
just seems all of the business stuff is better suited for an Ex to begin with.

There are a lot of jobs that an excavator is well suited for, but it is a one trick pony to some extent. It sounds like the OP is looking for some "tractor for rent" type work and the CK should be good for that. It is small enough to trailer and still has enough guts to do some real work. The tractor might not be a bad place to start if he wants to build up enough business to help him grow into a larger operation. Excavators are fairly expensive so it could be tough to start out fresh and keep up the payments on one. If the OP has good confidence that he can keep the tractor busy it could be a good first bite.

L47TLBwannabe · May 20, 2019

Septic fields here are of the raised sand mound style. The backhoes for these Kioti's don't really dig deep enough for sewer and water work our frost line is 8-10 feet here.

L47TLBwannabe · May 20, 2019

Tennsawdust said:
There are a lot of jobs that an excavator is well suited for, but it is a one trick pony to some extent. It sounds like the OP is looking for some "tractor for rent" type work and the CK should be good for that. It is small enough to trailer and still has enough guts to do some real work. The tractor might not be a bad place to start if he wants to build up enough business to help him grow into a larger operation. Excavators are fairly expensive so it could be tough to start out fresh and keep up the payments on one. If the OP has good confidence that he can keep the tractor busy it could be a good first bite.

Yes this is my solution to that dilemma, I would love my own excavator and have long wanted my own but getting established enough to know I can make the payments through the lean months is the difficult part. And for this kind of work I need a machine that is heavy enough to dig in frozen ground and at the same time can be transported from job to job at minimal expense. Currently at my work I operate a 2006 Hitachi ZX160LC (16 tonne) and it does the majority of our jobs quite well but we still have to transport on a tri-axle trailer behind a tandem axle dump truck. If I went one size smaller to maybe a 120 or 130 size machine I could go without the extra axle and eliminate some costly tire replacement. Lol But I could still get on to most acreages and dig the deepest septic tanks 14-15 feet deep. But I'm also looking at maybe $1500/month to own, plus I would eventually have to buy a truck to transport it and all the costs associated with owning and operating a truck.

Tennsawdust · May 20, 2019

L47TLBwannabe said:
In the city's yards are very small and difficult to access but I don't live in the city I live about 45 minutes away in a small town that is growing slowly. There are a lot of acreages and small and large farms around here and a number of other small towns in the area where the yards are generally larger than in the big city. Buying this tractor is really a gateway for me to get in to running my own excavating business. This week I'll be signing my life away on a new Kioti CK3510HST with a loader, cab with a/c and heat, 60" bushhog style mower, 66" box blade, and 60" tiller. I might still get the stump grinder as I feel it could be a potentially good revenue stream despite costing $6,000. And in a couple weeks I will be getting my septic field installers course, if and when any septic jobs come up my boss said I can rent his ZX160LC Hitachi excavator until I have a enough business coming in that I can afford my own excavator. If I do take on any jobs in confined back yards there are a number of rental outfits in the area where I can just about any machine I might need.

A friend of mine is a construction contractor. He recently bought the RK37 with a backhoe for his business. His situation was a little different. He was spending a good chunk every month on rentals and sub-contracted excavation. Often it was little jobs that a small tractor could easily do. More importantly: the turn-around time for sub-contracted work was getting pretty long. The tractor isn't in any way intended to replace an excavator, but it will dig a footer, uncover a drain line and move gravel and dirt around - the kinds of odds and ends stuff you run into almost daily in the remodeling business. He also bought a 3 point straw blower so he can do his own lawn seeding. So far it is working out pretty well. It is offsetting several times it's cost.

Good luck with the new business. Hope it works out well for you!