Price on a 1736 Power Shuttle...........

[mjstef]

I was all set to but an LS XR3037C until i found out Massey had the power shuttle. I am intrigued as i have run backhoes and loaders most of my adult life and they all have power shuttles. I really don't want a Hydro as i don't want to run around at full RPM just so the loader works faster. No hydro i know of has a foot throttle. Remember, I come from the background of running a 935 CAT end loader with power shuttle and the only time we ran them wide open is when lifting the loader. We did this running the foot throttle. Otherwise we where at 3/4 throttle most of the time. A Hydro may be ok for a weekend warrior but i will put 40-50 hrs a week on this tractor during high season moving dirt, loading my dump trailer, grading driveways, pulling stumps Etc. Anyways i got a price back today from 2 different dealers and both where about $300 apart. Cheapest price CASH NO TRADE was $29,500. That's $1,350 more than the LS. I still think i can get the dealer down on the LS. $28,150 seems high.


Both have pros and cons:

Massey loader lifts higher (102") than LS (92")
Massey loader sits closer to the front axle which IMHO distributes weight better. LS loader is WAAAY out front of the tractor.
Massey has power shuttle - Ls has regular shuttle.
Massey has basic cab - LS has a nicer more comfortable cab better laid out.
Massey 3 point 2,535 - LS 1,808
Massey weight 3,803 - LS weight 3,590
Massey fuel 10.6 - LS 12.4
Massey PTO 27.5 - LS 30.3
Massey DL120 loader 1,920 - LS 2,182
Massey, 1 remote - LS 2 remotes.
Massey Hydraulic flow 11.6 - LS 12.4

So the long and the short is i still don't know what to do. At least i have till the end of April to make up my mind! Problem is nobody is stocking either tractor! The LS dealer will have a Hydro in shortly but Massey only orders in the power shuttle. What a dilemma......:confused2::confused2:

 

[MO MF Dealer]

You can manually control throttle with a Hydro. And the Massey Hydro are linked to the governor and will speed up the throttle when it needs to prevent stalling (Except GC Series).

But they also make Power Shuttles. Powershuttle is normally about $400 to $500 less than Hydro in the 1700 Premium Series.

 

[WilliamBos]

Get the Powershuttle if you are planning on doing that much work with it. Powershuttle is excellent for loader work.

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

IMO, the Hydro is best for loader work and the Powershuttle is better at everything else. Having said that, the Powershuttle isn't bad for loading, it's just that the Hydro is better.

 

[TSO]

Hope I was helpful in our previous conversation ...

I think you can get a better price on the LS that you posted. Around here, you can get a LS XR4046 HST cab with loader for around $28k. I know you're a bit east of me, but depending on the final price, shipping or driving might make sense (and buying out of state) to get the best pricing.

The foot throttle linked control of the Massey HST only adjusts the RPM's for travel ... not for the loader. Just like any HST, if you're doing real loader work, you'll want to get the revs up to maximize hydraulic flow.

I've owned a shuttle ... There are times when I preferred the shuttle over the HST, but those times are few & far in between. If you're doing much loader work, HST is the way to go.

My opinion anyhow ...

 

[MO MF Dealer]

Nothing against LS but if you plan on upgrading in the future what is the Resale Value going to be? Massey Ferguson is a World Wide Brand and has established dealer network of long term committed dealers many that have been in business for lots of years...probably not going anywhere and if they do normally they consolidate with another dealer to remain in the area. I've seen the smaller brand tractor dealers come and go or change the brands they sell. We have one local that has changed brands often and changed owners often and it hurts the resale value and servicing of those brands with no dealer or where the next closest dealer is located is something to consider. I've not only seen this in farm machinery but many other products. Pickups for example Toyota is a strong company but lacks rural dealers compared to Ford, Chevy and Dodge. I see the same thing in Bass Boat (I'm an avid fisherman in my spare times) the nationally recognized brands Skeeter, Ranger, Triton are much easier to resale and retain resale value versus regional brands like Phoenix and Legend. If your in an area of a strong dealer network for the regional brands that is not as much of a concern but National Brands may cost more up front but offer value added benefits like strong resale value, nationwide parts distribution network and dealer network that will insure you a place to get parts, service and dealer advice when you need it.

Couple things on comparison:

Massey Hydraulic Spec is 11.6 GPM @ the Remotes not Total Flow Capacity.
Massey Ferguson Power Shuttle is a hydraulic and features a Wet Clutch. Manual Shuttle are normally a Dry Clutch with manual Synchronizer. Massey Ferguson in the past series offered SynchoShuttle as an optional transmission for example the 1643 Platform was available as Manual (Syncho) Shuttle, Power Shuttle or Hydrostat. Powershuttle was $835 Higher than Synchro Shuttle and Hydro was $470 higher than Powershuttle or Hydro was $1,305 higher than Manual Shuttle.

One thing on Manual Shuttle...Clutch Life is dependent on the Left Foot...you keep your foot on the clutch pedal or slip the clutch and your reducing life. Dry Clutch especially in loader applications will have a shorter life than Wet Clutch or PowerShuttle since it is oil cooled and lubricated.

Here are couple videos we did. This one is on operation of the different transmissions Massey Ferguson offered. These are last year models but the 1700 Series will operate the same.

]

 

[MO MF Dealer]

Here's a video on Hydraulics and a way to see the differences and test while test driving the models you are comparing

 

[TSO]

Nothing against LS but if you plan on upgrading in the future what is the Resale Value going to be? Massey Ferguson is a World Wide Brand and has established dealer network of long term committed dealers many that have been in business for lots of years...probably not going anywhere and if they do normally they consolidate with another dealer to remain in the area. I've seen the smaller brand tractor dealers come and go or change the brands they sell. We have one local that has changed brands often and changed owners often and it hurts the resale value and servicing of those brands with no dealer or where the next closest dealer is located is something to consider. I've not only seen this in farm machinery but many other products. Pickups for example Toyota is a strong company but lacks rural dealers compared to Ford, Chevy and Dodge. I see the same thing in Bass Boat (I'm an avid fisherman in my spare times) the nationally recognized brands Skeeter, Ranger, Triton are much easier to resale and retain resale value versus regional brands like Phoenix and Legend. If your in an area of a strong dealer network for the regional brands that is not as much of a concern but National Brands may cost more up front but offer value added benefits like strong resale value, nationwide parts distribution network and dealer network that will insure you a place to get parts, service and dealer advice when you need it.

Couple things on comparison:

Massey Hydraulic Spec is 11.6 GPM @ the Remotes not Total Flow Capacity.
Massey Ferguson Power Shuttle is a hydraulic and features a Wet Clutch. Manual Shuttle are normally a Dry Clutch with manual Synchronizer. Massey Ferguson in the past series offered SynchoShuttle as an optional transmission for example the 1643 Platform was available as Manual (Syncho) Shuttle, Power Shuttle or Hydrostat. Powershuttle was $835 Higher than Synchro Shuttle and Hydro was $470 higher than Powershuttle or Hydro was $1,305 higher than Manual Shuttle.

One thing on Manual Shuttle...Clutch Life is dependent on the Left Foot...you keep your foot on the clutch pedal or slip the clutch and your reducing life. Dry Clutch especially in loader applications will have a shorter life than Wet Clutch or PowerShuttle since it is oil cooled and lubricated.

Here are couple videos we did. This one is on operation of the different transmissions Massey Ferguson offered. These are last year models but the 1700 Series will operate the same.

Video Link: http://youtu.be/JyKt6oXlFHU

]

Toyota resale is among the highest of any automaker, as they make quality products with solid reputations...

LS is on that path. LS is a world wide company, with many dealers (and expanding) spread out between the different "brands" they are sold under. Currently, LS resale values (in my experience) are doing about as well as any other brand. Regardless, I wouldn't let resale value be a primary factor in a tractor purchase.

And don't forget, these Massey units aren't really Massey anyhow ... they're rebadged Iseki's.

 

[MO MF Dealer]

Not getting into a brand war. But the Official Trade Guide by Iron Guides Farm Equipment Blue Book Value & Buyers Guide, Used Tractors, ATVs & More - IRON Guides that dealers, banks and dealer floor plan companies use to set values for pre-owned machines Massey Ferguson is listed. Deere, CaseIH, Kubota, Mahindra (Just got added), McCormick, Buhler Versatile, New Holland, Challenger, Fendt. The only way I can get Pre-Owned Floor Plan is the tractor must be in the Official Guide. As a dealer I can offer more if I can get used financing for the inventory I trade for. That makes a huge difference in what I can allow for trade value if I have to finance 100% the value of the equipment of I can finance with dealer floor plan.

Toyota may a great resale value in the urban areas...but I'm looking at the trucks that pull into my dealership everyday. I rarely see a Toyota because no local dealer support. I know local dealers at the Ford, Chevy and Dodge dealers in town and they will not trade for non-local supported brands unless they have a close dealer support they can't resale them. Only way they state is if they buy it right...probably going direct to auction. I was thinking about a Toyota at one time because they support one of the Fishing Tournament organizations I fish. But my closest dealer is 50 miles away and that was farther than I was comfortable owning a vehicle from. I was one the buying side and it made a difference in what I purchased. It may not be that way in all regions of the country but in West Central Missouri it does.


Yes Massey Ferguson Compacts are manufactured by Iseki to Massey Specifications. If you look and compare Iseki and Massey Ferguson products there are differences. Massey Ferguson is more ergonomic layout of controls. Styling is designed by Massey Ferguson. I personally know several of the AGCO Employees that work directly with Iseki and work to add features and layout the way Massey Ferguson wants them built. It's not just a rebadged Iskei tractor painted red. Iseki partnership has been a great relationship for both brands. Iseki benefits with Massey Ferguson's World Wide Dealer Network and the world most popular tractor brand. Interesting story one of the Massey Ferguson Compact Marketing Team told me on a visit to Japan. Iseki employees were going to show them all the Iseki products in the field and they seen more Massey Fergusons farming in Japan than Iseki. Iseki personnel were a little embarrassed but the Massey Ferguson Team was very impressed that they competed very well in Iseki homeland. I asked them why where customers buying Massey...they said it was the added features and layout of the controls of the Massey. There is product differences but built by a high quality company.

 

[TSO]

Not getting into a brand war. But the Official Trade Guide by Iron Guides Farm Equipment Blue Book Value & Buyers Guide, Used Tractors, ATVs & More - IRON Guides that dealers, banks and dealer floor plan companies use to set values for pre-owned machines Massey Ferguson is listed. Deere, CaseIH, Kubota, Mahindra (Just got added), McCormick, Buhler Versatile, New Holland, Challenger, Fendt. The only way I can get Pre-Owned Floor Plan is the tractor must be in the Official Guide. As a dealer I can offer more if I can get used financing for the inventory I trade for. That makes a huge difference in what I can allow for trade value if I have to finance 100% the value of the equipment of I can finance with dealer floor plan.

Toyota may a great resale value in the urban areas...but I'm looking at the trucks that pull into my dealership everyday. I rarely see a Toyota because no local dealer support. I know local dealers at the Ford, Chevy and Dodge dealers in town and they will not trade for non-local supported brands unless they have a close dealer support they can't resale them. Only way they state is if they buy it right...probably going direct to auction. I was thinking about a Toyota at one time because they support one of the Fishing Tournament organizations I fish. But my closest dealer is 50 miles away and that was farther than I was comfortable owning a vehicle from. I was one the buying side and it made a difference in what I purchased. It may not be that way in all regions of the country but in West Central Missouri it does.

Yes Massey Ferguson Compacts are manufactured by Iseki to Massey Specifications. If you look and compare Iseki and Massey Ferguson products there are differences. Massey Ferguson is more ergonomic layout of controls. Styling is designed by Massey Ferguson. I personally know several of the AGCO Employees that work directly with Iseki and work to add features and layout the way Massey Ferguson wants them built. It's not just a rebadged Iskei tractor painted red. Iseki partnership has been a great relationship for both brands. Iseki benefits with Massey Ferguson's World Wide Dealer Network and the world most popular tractor brand. Interesting story one of the Massey Ferguson Compact Marketing Team told me on a visit to Japan. Iseki employees were going to show them all the Iseki products in the field and they seen more Massey Fergusons farming in Japan than Iseki. Iseki personnel were a little embarrassed but the Massey Ferguson Team was very impressed that they competed very well in Iseki homeland. I asked them why where customers buying Massey...they said it was the added features and layout of the controls of the Massey. There is product differences but built by a high quality company.

That's good information, thanks. I should have said, private party resale values ... I try not to trade-in because the offers are always lower than what is acceptable to me.

Mo MF Dealer ... I'm not trying to get in a brand war either. I don't own an LS anymore, just the Massey. I think they are both very nice machines.

Not to derail the thread too much, but since you're a dealer and have access to values, can you tell me what my 1648 HST cab is worth, with 40 hrs? and, what do they typically sell for new?