Post emissions used tractors.

[N80]

I'm looking for a 70-100 hp JD or Kubota. My search has been limited to pre-emissions machines and it has been frustrating to say the least. I think there is a LOT of good to be said for pre-emissions machines that don't have ECMs/computers but that doesn't seem to be in the cards for me right now.

I realize that my bias for pre-emissions machines is in large part built on here-say and ignorance. I know nothing about emissions stuff. But obviously people are buying new tractors and presumably these machines aren't rolling disasters of unreliability.

So, if I'm going to expand my search to emissions machines I guess I'm going to have to learn something about them.

Is there a summary or a primer on this stuff, the terms, the processes, the additional maintenance and cost, etc? Is there any real data (verses here-say) on reliability? I'd appreciate any input or reference that can help me understand.

For the record my use would be mostly on weekends. It would be highly variable. There would be very little long run times and set rpms.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Long story short a pre-emissions machine you can idle around all day with no issues, newer tier 4 tractors need to be ran at high rpm's pretty much little or no idling more than a few minutes or it builds up soot that needs to be burned off or re-gen which the tractor is supposed to do automatically, I personally like pre-emission tractors as I don't want to run around nearly wide open full time just my opinion, but not to worry there will be a cow pen full of folks along shortly to tell you all the benefits of tier 4 and DEF fluid and how they love not smelling diesel fuel and that it is saving the world.

 

[npalen]

I post mainly for entertainment but this guy will give you his thoughts.

 

[N80]

So this is one of those hot topis? Not intending to start a war. Just need to know the basics.

The problem is that my intended and typical use involves lot of time idling and doing stuff at low rpms. The same would be true with the new one. That worries me.

 

[jyoutz]

So this is one of those hot topis? Not intending to start a war. Just need to know the basics.

The problem is that my intended and typical use involves lot of time idling and doing stuff at low rpms. The same would be true with the new one. That worries me.

Yes, you do need to run the tier 4 tractors at higher RPMs most of the time to minimize regeneration cycles. But regeneration cycles aren’t an issue, I just raise RPMs and keep working. I prefer tier 4 tractors for a personal reason. I used to get sinus headaches from the diesel exhaust after using my old pre-emissions tractor; now I don’t with my new tractor. I run open station tractors so I guess a pre-emissions cab tractor wouldn’t have those issues.

 

[MinnesotaMorg]

While not the brands you stated, there are a few 70+ hp tractors that don't have DPF or DEF. New holland workmaster/powerstar 75, Massey Ferguson 4707, mahindra 6075. There are probably others, but these are the ones I can think of.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm looking for a 70-100 hp JD or Kubota. My search has been limited to pre-emissions machines and it has been frustrating to say the least. I think there is a LOT of good to be said for pre-emissions machines that don't have ECMs/computers but that doesn't seem to be in the cards for me right now.

I realize that my bias for pre-emissions machines is in large part built on here-say and ignorance. I know nothing about emissions stuff. But obviously people are buying new tractors and presumably these machines aren't rolling disasters of unreliability.

So, if I'm going to expand my search to emissions machines I guess I'm going to have to learn something about them.

Is there a summary or a primer on this stuff, the terms, the processes, the additional maintenance and cost, etc? Is there any real data (verses here-say) on reliability? I'd appreciate any input or reference that can help me understand.

For the record my use would be mostly on weekends. It would be highly variable. There would be very little long run times and set rpms.

For what you are doing, I think a post emissions used machine would be fine. You arent relying on it to make a living. The emissions machines are just more complex. They have to be. They have an exhaust after treatment system that adds more parts (sensors, wires, valves, soot traps, and the parts for DEF if over 75HP, too). It has to be less reliable. There’s just more parts & functions on board than a pre emissions tractor. It’s not “hearsay” its factual. DPF and DEF systems can fail or wear out.

It’s like a 4WD pickup versus a 2WD pickup. There’s more moving/wear parts on the 4WD so more potential for problems.

I’d doubt there’s any data available. In my case, each time a tech comes out from the dealer to help us repair something, they do comment to me ”you’re smart for buying pre-emissions tractors”. They tell me a lot of stories of farm tractors in perfect running condition out of service because of a bad sensor. However, that’s not your situation, so you would be ok. Not the end of the world if your tractor goes down and you might enjoy the cleaner exhaust.

As far as additional cost, there’s DEF fluid if over max HP for a DPF only and the cost to replace sensors that can go bad. I’d doubt you’ll ever clog the DPF if you operate it properly.

BTW: pre-emissions tractors have ECMs/PCMs, too. Most common rail diesel engines have electronic injection pumps and require a computer to operate.

 

[EddieWalker]

I started my search for a cabbed tractor with the same idea. I wanted something made from 2012 or earlier. I found several nice tractors, but while waiting to look at a few others, the prices started going up. My timing was off, and I wasn't willing to pay $5,000 more for the tractor that I had just looked at the week before. I'm fortunate that I have quite a few used dealers in my area, and Tractorhouse has plenty of listings to consider. The ones I looked at in person where anywhere from excellent condition, to falling apart. Price seemed to be based on brand more then condition or hours. Kubota and Deere where the most expensive, Kioti was probably the best on price that I found. I also probably overthought everything and waited too long on making an offer on some of the better deals that I came across.

I've never had a Tier4 tractor, so I can't comment on any personal experience. I have a few friends that have them and they have complained about finding DEF, and not being happy about dealing with Regen when it happens. One has had his tractor in a few times to deal with warning lights, but it never stopped working so he couldn't use it. I also buy hay from several different people with bigger tractors and all of them hate Tier4. One of them removed all of it from his tractor once the warrantee was over and said it was the best thing he ever did. It's probably just negative thinking on my part, but I'm convinced that if I bought a tractor that required DEF, I would have to deal with it at some point, and I just don't want to add that to the list of other things I'm sure I'll have to deal with.

Since I'm financing this, getting the right loan also became an issue. Some used dealers don't offer financing, and my bank wasn't very interested in being competitive with what some of the other dealers where offering. This also limited my choices, so I kept looking.

Eventually I read about Massey Ferguson on here and looked into buying brand new. I signed the papers back in November for a brand new 4707 cabbed 4x4 tractor for $55,300 with zero percent interest for 84 months and a monthly payment of $659. I'm still waiting on the tractor. Since then, the price has increased, financing and changed, and I'm not aware of anybody that has anything close to this right now.

One of the biggest reasons for going into debt was not buying something that somebody else didn't want. Either it was financial and they took great care of it, or it had issues and they didn't want to deal with it. The 4707 does not use DEF and it does not go through Regen. It's right under the HP rules for this.

 

[ericm979]

If you can work with < 75hp, the emissions limits are easier to meet. DEF is not required. A lot of the problems with trucks are with the DEF system.

 

[deserteagle71]

While not the brands you stated, there are a few 70+ hp tractors that don't have DPF or DEF. New holland workmaster/powerstar 75, Massey Ferguson 4707, mahindra 6075. There are probably others, but these are the ones I can think of.

You are correct. I almost bought a New Holland before finding my Kubota used but almost new.

No, those tractors don't use a DPF or DEF. They have a DOC system - and no different from any other newer TierIV tractor, you still have to avoid running them at idle/low rpms. The catalyst will not work properly if it is not hot.