Pole Barn building question(s)

[Dartagnan]

Hello again,

I am currently in the preliminary (very) design stages of my garage, workshop, tractor house, hideout from the kids, ect, building, and have a couple questions that I'm sure you guys can answer for me.

First let me say that there is definatly some budgetary considerations, whereas my time is "free". And I'm the kind of person who would rather spend $200 on a tool that I will have forever than to spend an extra $150 for some one else to do it.

The area I'm looking to build on is full of white pine that I will need to clear.(Actually I have about 7 acres of them) Some of them are fairly straight and of a decent enough size in my mind to make the poles. 8-12 inch base tapering to 5-6 @ 20ft or so...just eyeballing it, haven't actually taken a tape to them.

Is white pine going to be strong enough?

What should the life expectancy of the pole be verses .60 PT

Will coating the base of the pole prior to install with roofing tar or some other substance increase the life of the pole?

Does gravel back fill actually let water drain away, or does it give water some void space to pool? (well digging 101, dig a hole deep enough and it will partialy fill with water)


My experience with PT (not sure of the rating now, was installed in '88) is limited to a retaining wall built in florida. 4x4 posts were concreted to a wedge of three cinder blocks just below surface, supported a four foot sand bank for 15 years.(except for the boilout when we had 4 inches of rain in 2 hours) But some of the posts were begining to decay at the ground level. However there was no nada zip protection from weather (in fact the sprinkler system ran along the base of the wall) unlike a pole barn that is eventually going to be sided. So my thing is, how much longer is PT going to last anyway, maybe I should just bite the bullet and pour and stick build?

Any input greatly appreciated! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Dart

 

[BigAl]

Dart ,
I would look into our sister site at CountryByNet.com . It has a whole section on building of all types .
Big Al

 

[needtobuildmore]

Dart,

I too, recently attempted to build a "cheap' but functional and long lasting pole barn. Fortunately, my building inspector was willing to use common sense in place of strictly enforcing local codes.

If you are going to build with white pine, you may need to have it graded before using it as structural members. I have heard that there is a loophole (at least in Michigan) that may allow a person to build on the property using lumber cut on the property without it being graded.

All of that aside, white pine is neither very strong nor water/rot resistant, so I wouldn't put it underground.

When I built, I used a poured concrete "floating slab" with a heavy perimeter, and steel mesh. Before the pour set all of the way, I inserted anchor bolts on approximately 6' centers. I then bolted cedar 4x4's treated with roofing tar "watered down" with fuel oil to the slab in hopes that this would prevent rot for at least the rest of my lifetime. In my case, I laid out the wall using a conventional bottom plate and 4x4's on 4 foot centers as the wall "studs" and attached the purlins and everything the rest of the way up to the roofing just like a conventional pole building.

When completed, I had a pole building that was 26 x 30 for less than $2300.00 and it was s full 2 years before I had to add on for more space, but that's another story.

I hope this helped.

Jim

 

[rambler]

The white pine will make wonderfull wood for anything a foot or more about the earth surface. Will last as long as you keep it tinned/ painted/ somewhat out of the elements.

It will last about 5 years at the soil line, after which you (or the wind) will be able to pick up the shed, as it will no longer be attached to the ground. White pine is _real_ poor for soil contact, esp if you are taking live trees & doing it yourself, not drying, etc.

What you can do is pour concrete tubes with re-enforcing rods on your 8' (or whatever) centers to a foot above ground, put anchors in them.

Cut your own poles to go up from these concrete footings.

You will have a pole building that will only cost a little more, but will last & last & last beyond any wood burried in the ground.

--->Paul

 

[EddieWalker]

Preasure treating your own wood sounds like a fun idea, but there is no way you can get close to the results the experts do, in a factory designed just for that purpose.

My Loblolly pines will rot in a few months just lying on the ground in my area. Your pines might be better, but pine doesn't do well with dirt in any location.

To save money, the cheapest way will be to buy the PT poles, dig the holes and avoid using any concrete at all. You can always come back and pour concrete, but you don't have to use it, and it will really add to your budget.

Most roof with metal. Price depends on what's available in your area. Be sure to compare guage and ratings when pricing. The box stores sell a very low grade of metal, and their prices still don't compete with a metal building supplier.

Siding is a debate issue on this site that will never go away. I recomend anything that isn't wood.

Eddie

 

[gmason]

Dart, I would start looking for the odd telephone poles being replace for road expnsions. I our area, fast growth, nice green poles are pretty easy to find and in pretty good shape.
Some rule that says if there's too many holes already drilled in the pole they can't reuse them. I just have been watching whenever a line
crew is out there working I'll stop by and just ask. Usually they'll say sure. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I've been gathering poles for 3 years now and have found 12 good ones to use in my pole barn. I've just in the last 3 weekends put 10 of them up. I could only get 4'-4.5' deep holes dug before I hit something that was a lot harder than asphalt. My PHD wouldn't even touch it. I packed just some native clay around them. It'll turn hard as cement once it dries a little. I plan on putting 4-6" of rock and then a concret floor. So once this is all done they'll all be 5'+ below the finished level.

I'm going to get some pictures posted out on my posting sometime soon and then you'll be able to see the poles.

gary

 

[MarkV]

Dart,
The other thing is wood that is touching the ground in the south and not pressure treated will become a termite banquet hall. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

MarkV

 

[Dartagnan]

Termites....can I say duh loud enough?

As to grading of lumber, I wasn't too worried about that, the only inspection I'll face is electrical, then only if I pull another meter. (Not to say that I wouldn't test/grade myself prior to use)

Thanks for the responses

Dart