3-Point Hitch Please explain draft and position control interaction

[geneP]

I looked at a 243 and am confused about the draft position for the position control to work. The owner wasn't present, so I had to feel through my inspection. When I first approached the tractor the draft and position control were opposite each other at about mid point. When I started the tractor the lift wouldn't raise. I finally moved the draft lever full back and the position control lifted and released the arms normally. I have a case-IH with draft but I never use it, I think it stays in the full forward position.

I'm thinking about buying the tractor and need to know if this is normal and how to check the operation other than making sure it lifts and holds a load. Thanks for you comments.

Gene

 

[sdef]

Yes this is normal and happens all of the time on mine. I use draft control every time I use a ground engaging 3PH implement and find it extremely useful. Basically draft control keeps the implement at the same depth (+/-) as the tractor moves along. I have noticed that in my usage scenarios with the ROBB and rake, my position and draft handles are in similar positions when in use, never more than an inch or so apart.

Here is a good way to setup your draft control or to check one out. BTW: I believe I got this tidbit of info from MountnView (mispelled?) and it is the simplest way for me to think about it:

- First lower the position control to get the implement at the depth you want it to be working at. Depending upon implement and terrain type, you may need to be moving to get things at the depth you want to work at.
- Then while stopped and watching the implement (you may need to backup a tiny bit to get the implement disengaged from the ground), slowly move the draft handle up until the implement starts to slightly move up. Play with it a bit to get the feel. Mine shutters when I am at that perfect center point while doing this.
- And the draft control is now set to the depth you want. It will keep the implement basically at this depth no matter how deep it would like to dig otherwise. And it will be helpful doing the same as the tractor see saws over unlevel ground, depending upon the tractor's forward ground speed. Your ground speed may need to be adjusted if the draft control's response is slow. And I am more successful at slower speeds relative to the speed I would like to be traveling
- Also, some tractors have different ways of sensing draft, most I think from the top link attachment, but I have also heard of some lower link sensing mechanisms. My top link sensor system has three positions, as I seem to recall (tractor is 35 miles away so can't verify). One position to bypass draft and the other two for quicker or slower draft response.

 

[geneP]

Thank you for that detailed explanation. I guess my more pointed question is: Should the position control raise the lower links no matter what position the draft control lever is in? This is with no implement or load on the 3 point hitch.

 

[jeff9366]

PLOW WISDOM FROM FARMWITHJUNK:

Re: Proper use of draft and position controls.

Originally Posted by Kenfyoozed
I have a MF135, and want to make sure I am using the postion and draft control poroperly. The position contol rasies and lowers the implement being used, correct? While the draft keeps the implement at the proper level, say for discing? When I have both controls in the lower position. When i rasie the position lever, the draft lever raises as well. When I lower the position lever, the draft lowers as well. But I can use the draft lever independently of the position lever. I have just been keeping the position lever in "up" and using the draft lever to control the rasing and lowering of the implement. Is this the proper way? Or how should i be using these controls?

NOPE!

The 100 series Masseys use what was known as the "advanced Ferguson System draft control". It was a departure from earlier Fergusons where both levers were sometimes used at the same time. With the 135's controls, you use ONE or the OTHER, but not BOTH at the same time.

Use the position control lever to raise and lower just about every implement. Leave the draft control lever in raised position. When you're using a "soil engaging implement" such as a moldboard plow, a subsoiler, or even a disc, use the draft control lever only with the position control lever left in the raised position. The draft control lever is used ONLY when you're wanting "draft control" for your implement. In any event, you should never be using BOTH at the same time. Using the draft control lever to raise and lower heavy implements will cause the draft control "mechanics" to be working harder that they normally should be. You may even find that the draft control function won't raise loads heavy enough to be at the upper limits of the hydraulic system's capabilities. The position control function is far more capable of raising heavy loads.
Last edited by Farmwithjunk; 12-18-2007 at 09:20 PM.


Re: Proper use of draft and position controls.

Originally Posted by Kenfyoozed
OK. Thanks. I was sure I was using it wrong. I had been leaving the position lever in the raised position and then using the draft lever to raise and lower. Hopefully I didnt damage anything. I only used it this way a hand full of imes to raise and lower the height of the bush hog.

When both levers are in the raised position, and I move the position lever from raise to lower, should the draft control move as well? Mine does. I didnt know if this is a problem that needs to be addressed or maybe just a little dirty. It looked like the two levers were combined where they went inside the tractor.

No, the draft control lever shouldn't move with the position control lever. Look at both the levers. You'll see a screw with a spring tentioner on the side of each lever. Tighten the screw on the draft control lever until it creates enough "drag" to hold that lever while you move the position control lever. A turn or two on that screw should make a remarkable difference.

The two levers do in fact "combine where they go into the tractor" in a manner of speaking. The position control goes into the rear end housing via a hollow tube with the draft control entering via a round rod INSIDE that hollow tube. This is where service manuals and parts manuals are EXTEREMELY helpfull in understanding how various parts and pieces operate. The parts manual has exploded views, allowing you to see how everything is assembled. Knowing HOW somthing works helps to understand WHY it works.

I doubt you did any damage. The fact that everything is still working is a good indication there's no problems. Biggest "problem" with using the draft control to raise and lower implements not needing "draft control" is maintaining a constant operating position. It's virtually impossible to mow (with a bush hog as an example) while using draft control function to regulate cutting height. The mower would tend to move up and down quite a bit.

 

[sdef]

Thank you for that detailed explanation. I guess my more pointed question is: Should the position control raise the lower links no matter what position the draft control lever is in? This is with no implement or load on the 3 point hitch.

No, not on mine. The draft control will limit what the position control can do. So say my draft control is in the middle position, the position control will not be able to raise the 3PH all of the way up. Nor will it be able to go all of the way down. If the draft control handle is in any active position, it will limit what the position control can do.

I would have to go out on my tractor and test which position to leave the draft handle in for normal operation not using draft control, as I have been using mine in draft mode continuously all of this year. I am planning on spending tomorrow doing PM on the tractor and will confirm position interaction with the draft, max/min.

 

[geneP]

Thank you for both informative posts. I'm taking it that if the draft will raise/lower the hitch with the position lever in the "up" position, the draft lever will need to be in the back, or "up" position for the position lever to fully raise the lift arms. It seems as this purchase candidate is operating normally in this respect. My Case-IH position control operates with the draft in any position and I was worried that this MF 243 might have a problem.

Thanks again

 

[masseyrider]

draft position is used for implements engaging in the soil, ie a plough. When you set it to the load you want, the top link sensor will maintain the same load on the tractor. It will raise and lower the implement slightly as your soil conditions change across the field. The position control would maintain the same depth and the tractor would meet undue loads in harder spots causing wheel spin and you to make continuous manual adjustments. When you come to the end of a run and raise the ie plough the position control limits how high you can lift by its setting. Comes in handy when using pto driven implements so that you don't over lift and damage pto shafts etc. This works in reverse when using the position control. Position control is used for non soil engaging tools such as a grass cutter where you want a constant setting but the load does not change appreciably. My father never figured it out and it always hurt me watching him plough a field and all the unnecessary wheel spin and torture on the tractor.:banghead:

 

[JWR]

I looked at a 243 and am confused about the draft position for the position control to work. The owner wasn't present, so I had to feel through my inspection. When I first approached the tractor the draft and position control were opposite each other at about mid point. When I started the tractor the lift wouldn't raise. I finally moved the draft lever full back and the position control lifted and released the arms normally. I have a case-IH with draft but I never use it, I think it stays in the full forward position.

I'm thinking about buying the tractor and need to know if this is normal and how to check the operation other than making sure it lifts and holds a load. Thanks for you comments.

Gene

This is an important issue about which many owners and even dealers are not knowledgeable. The basics are: With the Draft control "full up" it is in theory out of the picture and not involved. That leaves the Position lever in control. For most people the Draft control is rarely used and mostly a confusion factor. If you really use plows and need draft control, etc. go read the manual. Any tractor you consider buying ought to work the lift reliably in this "Position Control" mode. But the rest of the story is not so well understood. On most Massey tractors (my MF 2660 for example) the Draft lever DOES NOT really put draft sensing totally out of the picture but rather desensitizes it. If you put a large load on the 3pt hitch (say a 1500 lb 7ft bush hog) the lift becomes erratic and "lifts it most of the time." To me this is absurd and far worse because most dealers do not understand and do not inform the users. It ought to be in bold face type on page one of the Owner's Manual -- which never even mentions these facts. The top link is draft sensing on older tractors and most but the larger new ones. Massey even sells a "Draft lockout kit" which precludes loads on the draft sensing fat spring behind the top link. That in itself speaks volumes ! Anything you mount on the 3pt that puts a large load on the top link will invoke draft sensing to some degree and make the lift behavior erratic. For example rear mounted heavy implements (boom cutters, disk mowers, etc.) that use stabilizer links can put huge loads on the top link attach point and trigger Draft Control intrusion.