Pitfalls of doing a Timber Harvest?

plowhog · Dec 30, 2017

Log prices have climbed, and I have the opportunity to do a Timber Harvest for my property in California. I've never done this before?

My understanding is I need a Timber Harvest application submitted to CalFire, signed by a Registered Forester, and identifying a Licensed Timber Operator (LTO) who will do the actual logging and cleanup.

I have heard horror stories of unscrupulous LTO's that will haul off truckloads of logs, then sell them to a Mill under a different property/job name, thereby shortchanging the actual owner of the timber. And, I've been told that CalFire requires minimal standards for post-logging cleanup, but that a higher level of cleanup is probably going to be desired for my residential property, and that such work is expensive.

Does anyone have experience doing a Timber Harvest? How did your job turn out? What kind of post-logging cleanup did you do, and are you happy with the results? Any suggestions on how to avoid any pitfalls?

EddieWalker · Dec 30, 2017

My neighbor is a private pilot for one of the big timber companies here in East Texas and when he had his land thinned a couple years ago, he did it with a Forester overseeing what they did, and verifying that he was paid what he was owed. He went into it knowing what they would do, and what they would leave behind. When it was all said and done, and he had his open areas cleared of stumps and planted in grass, it cost him twice to clean it up then he was paid from the logs. He said that he would never do it again, and the next owner of the land after he dies will have to deal with the loggers.

Einthewoods · Dec 30, 2017

I had my property (20 acres hard maple mainly) selection logged a year ago. Before they cut a single tree they marked each one and I was able to change anything they wanted to harvest. Prior to harvest they did a timber count on paper and offered a price they would pay. You can then negotiate that price. The whole process was easy. They used a single harvester machine to cut and haul the logs to a trailer located on a trail.

The wood they would take was broke down into two ways:
1. good straight logs (8' at least) that would be used for lumber/veneer etc.
2. any larger (greater than say 5-6" diameter) that wasn't straight that they would take for firewood sales

With that being said, I will NEVER do it again. After they were done I had major damage to the ground from the harvester making it way through the woodlot. They created new trails throughout the work just from the harvester making multiple passes. The debris left behind was enough to make me sick.

Branches both big and small, some of which would make great firewood for myself were everywhere. A lot of it was put on the trails and used for traction for the harvester. Which means it was ground into the earth, broken up or otherwise dirt filled. Trails from the machine are unsightly to say the least. I wish I could describe the damage done. If it weren't for a foot of snow covering it right now I'd post some pic's.

I am sure most people would not see the damage as I do looking at my property. But I see it and still am sick over it. I am still dragging out pieces for firewood that can be salvaged but it will take years for the mess to get grown over. It is no where near worth the money paid in my opinion.

cointoss · Dec 30, 2017

I am in northern Michigan as well and have experienced the pitfalls of loggers. I have had three cuttings done on 120 acres, the first was popple (aspen) left quite a bit of debris but rotted down after about 5 years. The second cutting was basswood and some stumps remain but the ironwood that was in the way will be there after I die. The last was maple by the same company that logged the basswood but done by the previous owners son and it is a mess. I don't care what you have in writing you will not be happy for the money that you make from it.

Zippo1 · Dec 30, 2017

We also have a logging horror story - we interviewed and ended up hiring a logger who promised that, when he was done, we wouldn't know he'd been there except the trees would be gone. Ha! Like others have said, we had piles of limbs and some buried so deeply into the ground by the equipment that they'll probably fossilize before they're seen again. It took us months to clean up the mess. He also tried to sell some of the logs without paying us for them but got caught by the mill and they would only make the check out to us so at least we came out OK there. Beware...

plowhog · Dec 30, 2017

Properties near us that have been logged range from looking like a nice improvement to looking like it was a former military bombing range. So I understand the amount of post-logging cleanup contracted and paid for is important.

There is significant value available from logging-- in the six figures. And areas of the property are overgrown. So logging would improve the health of the forest and reduce the fire danger. We are likely to proceed with this project-- but am trying to learn the issues to avoid.

Should I plan to require certain cleanup standards? If so what would you suggest? And, should I plan on being onsite when work is performed, or use game cameras to record and inventory trucks as they leave the property? Fortunately there is only one road to the mill ...

fishheadbob · Dec 30, 2017

I hired a consulting forester when I was logged. Before I hired the forester I had a State forester cruise my woods to tell me what he saw. I also asked him about different consulting foresters, the guy was informative. Yes, the consulting forester cost me a few bucks but since I had no idea what I was doing (think babe in the woods) I consider it money well spent. We discussed what I wanted ( a selective harvest), they marked what was to be cut, put my trees out to bid , had a few logging companies look at the job, then the forester, actually a company, recommended their favorite for my particular job. The loggers came in, took what was marked, then left a lot of tops which was fine with me since I probably told the consulting forester I wanted a lot of firewood. When the ground hardened up the loggers came in with a D-8 and fixed most of the ruts where they could.
The contract terms were that they had one year to do the harvest, they probably didn't start until into the 11th month so the wood could grow that much more. I thought that things went smoothly. The consulting forester took a percentage of what I received when I received it, no sooner. I was warned in advance that logging is never pretty and that a lot of slash would be left behind, it was. No big deal they said as the slash would be gone in 5 years or so, meanwhile the bunnies or whatever would have a little extra cover. While I was making maybe 60 face cords of great firewood I'd take the saw to the bigger slash and pare it down so it made better ground contact and rotted a little sooner.
That was maybe 25 years ago; I could probably do another selective cut now but even though I think I know my stuff, I wouldn't get logged again without a consulting forester.
Nice bonus was some good trails through the woods.

newbury · Dec 30, 2017

plowhog said:
Log prices have climbed, and I have the opportunity to do a Timber Harvest for my property in California. I've never done this before?

My understanding is I need a Timber Harvest application submitted to CalFire, signed by a Registered Forester, and identifying a Licensed Timber Operator (LTO) who will do the actual logging and cleanup.

I have heard horror stories of unscrupulous LTO's that will haul off truckloads of logs, then sell them to a Mill under a different property/job name, thereby shortchanging the actual owner of the timber. And, I've been told that CalFire requires minimal standards for post-logging cleanup, but that a higher level of cleanup is probably going to be desired for my residential property, and that such work is expensive.

Does anyone have experience doing a Timber Harvest? How did your job turn out? What kind of post-logging cleanup did you do, and are you happy with the results? Any suggestions on how to avoid any pitfalls?

Have had several "timber harvests" in Northeast Mississippi and am in the process for another.

Get with a state forester to start with.

My experience - Jobs turned out fine.
No post logging cleanup, they left slash all over, which is good and piles for stumps. Which provides good wildlife habitat.

From reading other responses it seems people expect park like conditions. I'm selling timber. It gets replanted. Slash left all over may interfere with tiptoeing through the trees but it doesn't bother the deer and rabbits and composts back to the forest floor.

My first question is how many acres? If it's a small plot like under 10 acres your going to have difficulty and might want to plan on doing just selective cutting yourself.

Get a list of registered foresters, you should find three or four, maybe get recommendations form the state. Make a prioritized list of what's important to YOU. Do you want MONEY?? WILDLIFE?? PRETTY?? You can't usually maximize all three. With your priorities set interview registered foresters, tell them what you want to do, look at their previous work.

cqaigy2 · Dec 30, 2017

We had a few loads of export removed a number of years ago. One thing i do remember was my wife taking a pictures of the truck trailer with tag for each load that left the property. We did the clean up our self