Old Jacobsen Out Front Commercial

[mdrohman]

Hi everyone,
Was wondering if anyone could help me out. I got an old Jacobsen "Out Front Commercial" tractor. I'd like to get it ready to blow snow this winter but it hasn't been run since 2008 - supposedly it ran when it parked. It needs a lot of work.

The plan is:
1) Get engine running decent
2) Get chassis in working order
3) Get PTO and blower working

Step 1 of the plan has not gone as smooth as I thought. The engine is a 1.1 Ford industrial engine and is supposedly identical (except stroke) to what's in a 1980 Fiesta.
The tractor didn't come with a key so I had to replace the ignition switch. Old key switch:

I got a new one from Napa (pn: 7-01854) with the same connections on the back but am getting seemingly no action through the switch. The switch is getting 12V. If I jump from the hot terminal on the switch plug strait to the starter, the engine turns over. While doing that with the key "on", I get no spark. Wondering if anyone is familiar with this switch. I would at least like to get the engine turning over with the key, then I can worry about getting spark.
New switch:

Jumping from the hot terminal on the plug to any other terminal seems to do nothing. I'm wondering if the starting function goes through the Motorcraft Ignition Module or something:

Also, there are some plugs (fuse holders?) coming out of the conduit on the breakout to the alternator and ignition module. Anyone know what these are for? Have any idea if they should be hooked to something?


I've tried to trace wires but it all goes into conduit and most of the components share wire colors. Does anybody have any ideas on how to make one of these old ford engines turn over and have spark (with the key switch and ideally the factory harness)?

Thanks in advance,
Matt

 

[Xfaxman]

The new key looks like a generic riding mower switch. Will your new key work in the old switch?

There are some safety switches in the circuit that won't let it try to start. My TORO has PTO, HST Neutral and seat.


You should be able to get a manual with a wiring diagram for it.

 

[aczlan]

Xfaxman covered it. Try jumping the parking brake switch, PTO switch and seat switch and see if that fixes it...

Aaron Z

 

[2deeskip]

I know, late response, but I have found not all "generic" lawn equip ignition switches are created equal. Basically there are 2 types, one for battery powered ignition & another type for engine magneto ignitions. The difference is in the on/off function.
For battery ignitions the on position provides power to the ignition terminal while a magneto type switch shorts the ignition terminal in the off position (kills the spark).
You need to be able to operate both switches while checking with an ohm meter, to compare function.
This difference had me going in circles for a time.

Skip

 

[mdrohman]

UPDATE

Not sure if anyone is interested in this project but I have some updates:
It's running and driving! but not very well.

This gets very long winded. I put question cliff notes at the end if you want to skip to there and give a noob some advice.

Xfaxman was right on. I found the neutral switch on the transmission was rusted and gummed up. When that was freed up it turned over with the key and had spark. I then tackled (or was tackled by) the fuel side of the motor. When pulling the old fuel lines, I found this:


Who needs a fuel filter when you have a bic pen tube?
I do. Along with a new fuel pump.

I could see rust in the bottom of the fuel tank so I removed the tank which involved taking half the machine apart:


Wire wheel to the bottom of the tank revealed great fun:


I had a shop patch it up and line it with a lifetime warranty:


About the same time I put new tires on it and a new seat.

With the new fuel system and a cleaned out carb I had the engine running. Step 1 from my original post complete. I then took on getting it moving under it's own power.

A big challenge I had was finding the right drive belts for this machine. If anyone is crazy enough to own one of these dinosaurs and is even crazier to want to put money into it, the follow info may be useful.
Belt from engine to hydro pump: 3/3VX475
Belt from hydro pump to PTO shaft: 2/3VX560
Belt on snowblower: 2/3VX560
Everything I found on the internet said people were using 3 individual belts drive the hydro pump (this is also what was on my machine when I got it - they were shredded). The only class of single belt that fit the pulley groves are "fractional horsepower" belts which from my understanding means they are designed to transfer less then one horsepower each. The belts listed above are banded together and notched (the 3/ means it's three belts banded together). These fit beautify and are rated to transmit the 30+ hp this engine produces. They are also expensive.

With the hydro pump belt on it moved! Very slowly if at all. I pulled the hydro filter and drained the fluid. This isn't what hydro fluid is supposed to look like is it?


I've drain and filled with new stuff three times so far. Each time the hydro has more and more power but the fluid still comes out very milky - water in it right? Will continuing to drain, fill and run the system solve this or do I need to be doing something else?

With the hydro pulling more power from the engine, the engine would slow and the governor would react giving more throttle and the engine would fall on it's face. Found out the accelerator pump was stuck. I found a guy who was willing to take on the ancient Zenith carb lacking any identification numbers. The carb is currently being rebuilt at his house - he thought it might be done this weekend. With the carb working correctly, I'm hoping step 2 from my original post will be pretty well done and the Jacobsen will be moving well under it's own power.

Step three was getting the PTO and blower working. The machine's PTO shaft needed a new bearing - It is belt drive off the hydro pump pulley and the tension from the belt pulled the bearing about an inch through it's own housing. Taking the shaft apart and out of the machine was very difficult but putting it back in with new bearings was far easier. Added a the new belt and the PTO shaft to the front of the machine was working great.

The snowblower is 52" and massive. Here it is compared to my dad's 38" for his LX178:


I freed everything up on the blower, put on a new belt and lubricated things the best I could. The electric spout rotation still works! What I'm struggling with now is the 90* gear box on the blower:


Is anyone familiar with these? There doesn't seem to be any oil drain plug on it. Is the oil supposed to be sucked out of the fill hole on the top? What weight oil do you think it takes? Grease? Any advise on freeing the plug on top before I completely round out the allen? I've been trying heat and PB blaster without much luck yet.

I got the snowblower mounted on the Jacobsen and currently have the driveshaft from the mower deck at a shop being shortened to use for the snowblower. I'm hoping next week it will actually be able to drive into snow and blow it!

I also have done some little things like new throttle and choke cables and bolted the cab frame on. This is how she sits now:


What would you guys do about the front and back windows on the cab? Have a glass shop make some up? Cut my own plastic?
What about doors? It didn't come with any. Would you guys make some from scratch? Steel frame with plastic windows? Canvas? What about hinges and handles? Any advice would be appreciated.

Question cliff notes:
1) Water in hydro fluid - how do I get rid of it?
2) Snowblower 90* gear box - how do I free stuck fill allen bolt? What oil weight would you put back in it?
3) Cab windows - What have you guys made the or had them made out of? Plastic? Glass? What has worked for you?
4) Cab doors - How would you go about making some and out of what? What have you used for hinges, handles, windows, the frame, etc?

Thanks for any insight, I've been enjoying this project.
Matt

 

[Xfaxman]

Re: UPDATE

Not sure if anyone is interested in this project but I have some updates: Thanks, I am very Interested.

It's running and driving! but not very well.
--------------------------------------------------
With the hydro pump belt on it moved! Very slowly if at all. I pulled the hydro filter and drained the fluid. This isn't what hydro fluid is supposed to look like is it? No, it should not look like that. :thumbdown:


I've drain and filled with new stuff three times so far. Each time the hydro has more and more power but the fluid still comes out very milky - water in it right? Will continuing to drain, fill and run the system solve this or do I need to be doing something else?

That is all that I know to do. And put on a new filter when it looks better

------

Is anyone familiar with these? Not me. There doesn't seem to be any oil drain plug on it. Is the oil supposed to be sucked out of the fill hole on the top? What weight oil do you think it takes? GL-5 gear oil SAE 80W-90. Grease? No. Any advise on freeing the plug on top before I completely round out the allen? I use an impact wrench and a socket from NAPA. I've been trying heat and PB blaster without much luck yet.

I got the snowblower mounted on the Jacobsen and currently have the driveshaft from the mower deck at a shop being shortened to use for the snowblower. I'm hoping next week it will actually be able to drive into snow and blow it! It is looking good! :thumbsup:
-------------------------------------------------
Question cliff notes: My answers are in blue, above.
1) Water in hydro fluid - how do I get rid of it?
2) Snowblower 90* gear box - how do I free stuck fill allen bolt? What oil weight would you put back in it?
3) Cab windows - What have you guys made the or had them made out of? Plastic? Glass? What has worked for you?
4) Cab doors - How would you go about making some and out of what? What have you used for hinges, handles, windows, the frame, etc?

Thanks for any insight, I've been enjoying this project.
Matt

What are you using for hydraulic fluid? My TORO uses 10W-30 or 10W-40 Motor Oil.

If all else fails on the Allen pipe thread plug, lay a large hex nut on it and weld it to the plug, through the threaded hole in the nut.

 

[Bill 55]

Allen wrenches are fairly cheap, cut about three inches off of the proper sized wrench. Insert it in the plug then tap with a hammer. Then try the heat again and cool it with blaster. It should come loose if not hit it a little harder.

 

[mdrohman]

Another update:

The accelerator pump on the original carb was stuck beyond stuck. The bowl was ruined during it's attempted removal. I got a "new" used carb off ebay that, in the picture, looked like the one I needed. When I got it, I was a little confused. Original on the left, new on the right:


All I needed was the bowl which was the only part of the two carbs that matched exactly. With some switching around, I had a functioning carburetor. It starts and seems to run great. No more stumbling symptoms of a stuck accelerator pump.

I also got the driveshaft installed, fired up the blower and drove into a snow bank only to throw one of the old rusty drive chains. Here is a pic of the driveshaft, new blower belt, and the sprockets that should have a chain on them:


I put on a new chain and re-assaulted the snow. Now the problem seems that I'm very low on power. The engine is supposed to be 35 or 40 horsepower but it's throwing snow like a 4 hp walk behind blower. My 18 hp Cub w/ 45" blower wouldn't bog down like this thing does.

I'm not that experienced with tuning. I did check the governor and it appear to be functioning properly - when the engine is bogging down, the governor is against it's full throttle stop. When the engine bogs way down and the throttle is wide open, it is running very rich (rolling coal :silly which I assume means it's getting enough fuel. No smoke when the rpms are up.

Here is a video I was hoping some of you with more experienced tuning ears could listen to and tell me I'm missing something simple:


Am I running on all four cylinders? Think my timing could be advanced or retarded enough to cause the symptoms seen in the video? Should I probably just rent a compression tester and see if my engine is a door stop?

Thanks for any insight,
Matt

 

[Xfaxman]

Sounds good, but hard to tell since the machine is moving away and the sound level drops.

Can you hold the camera while putting it under load?

How does it run up a steep hill or in deep snow, without spinning the blower? Maybe the blower is just too much of a load for it.

My TORO has never bogged down in thick weeds with the 72" deck.


But it will slow the engine down with the 88" deck.

 

[Beltman60]

nice project

I would make my own windows out of plex
the doors I would make an aluminum frame with some sheet metal on the bottom and some plex again for the windows

I recently bought an old Ransomes 61" deck front mower with a Mits diesel
been waiting for the weather to start working on it

good luck