Old Ford 4 speed transmission repair

[john_bud]

Hi,

As some may know, my tractor at only 25 hours did a bad thing while backing up with a load of dirt in the bucket. Trans made a "bad expensive" noise. Here are some pictures of what is needed to make it all better. Oh, the tractor is a 1963 Heavy Duty Industrial Model 4140 with a 723 hoe and 712 Super duty loader.

This is the tractor the day before the oops. That pile of dirt behind it is what was being moved. It was backing up with a load at the time, speed was a crawl or less as the tractor was loosing traction.

Here is the tractor back in the shop (took all day to get it back with minimizing rear wheel movement)

Here is what the transmission looks like when you take the cover off. Those plate looking things are what the shifter interacts with to change gear ratios.

Here are some things we got out with an extendo-magnet. Yikes! Those are teeth from a gear. Bad news below…

Here is a look at the main cluster. You can see some slight buggering up of one gear. That is 2nd gear by the way.

When the main cluster is out of the way, the countershaft (top) comes into view, along with some damage on the countershaft 2nd gear. The bottom gears are for reverse. The one that is badly broken is the reverse idler gear. It’s loose teeth caused the damage to the other parts of the trans.

Here is the reverse idler out of the transmission.

Here are all three gear sets side by side on the bench

Well, that's all for now. I have to order up some parts and will add more entries as things happen.

Happy tractoring!

jb

 

[john_bud]

Hi,

As some may know, my tractor at only 25 hours did a bad thing while backing up with a load of dirt in the bucket. Trans made a "bad expensive" noise. Here are some pictures of what is needed to make it all better. Oh, the tractor is a 1963 Heavy Duty Industrial Model 4140 with a 723 hoe and 712 Super duty loader.

This is the tractor the day before the oops. That pile of dirt behind it is what was being moved. It was backing up with a load at the time, speed was a crawl or less as the tractor was loosing traction.

Here is the tractor back in the shop (took all day to get it back with minimizing rear wheel movement)

Here is what the transmission looks like when you take the cover off. Those plate looking things are what the shifter interacts with to change gear ratios.

Here are some things we got out with an extendo-magnet. Yikes! Those are teeth from a gear. Bad news below…

Here is a look at the main cluster. You can see some slight buggering up of one gear. That is 2nd gear by the way.

When the main cluster is out of the way, the countershaft (top) comes into view, along with some damage on the countershaft 2nd gear. The bottom gears are for reverse. The one that is badly broken is the reverse idler gear. It’s loose teeth caused the damage to the other parts of the trans.

Here is the reverse idler out of the transmission.

Here are all three gear sets side by side on the bench

Well, that's all for now. I have to order up some parts and will add more entries as things happen.

Happy tractoring!

jb

 

[stevenf]

Great pictures John but I still think I'd be at the dealer pleading my case for a few years yet hopefully once I retire and the tractor is well out of warranty I'll have the courage to take off the covers and see whats making it not go. Luckily your dealing with a tractor that parts are still available for so that your not having to machine them or crawl thru junk yards searching for pieces.
Steve

 

[stevenf]

Great pictures John but I still think I'd be at the dealer pleading my case for a few years yet hopefully once I retire and the tractor is well out of warranty I'll have the courage to take off the covers and see whats making it not go. Luckily your dealing with a tractor that parts are still available for so that your not having to machine them or crawl thru junk yards searching for pieces.
Steve

 

[john_bud]

Stevef,

I wouldn't be quite so sure about parts being easily available! Does the term "NLS" mean anything? No Longer Serviced.

Of course nowadays, crawing around junk yards can be done from the computer in the den! Not nearly as much fun, but productive.

Still trying to figure out why it went "pop!".

jb

 

[john_bud]

Stevef,

I wouldn't be quite so sure about parts being easily available! Does the term "NLS" mean anything? No Longer Serviced.

Of course nowadays, crawing around junk yards can be done from the computer in the den! Not nearly as much fun, but productive.

Still trying to figure out why it went "pop!".

jb

 

[john_bud]

Hi,

I stuck all of the gears back into the case and measured up everything using the shim packs in the locations they were in at the time of the incident. The countershaft was ok, but the main shaft was loose. I set up a dial indicator and took these pictures as I moved the cluster forward and back. As you can see, there is 0.045" of motion where there should be about none.

Why? well, either I totally goofed up (could be, but I remember testing it), or I sort of goofed up. Huh? My theory is that I didn't get one of the new bearing cups seated all the way down. Then while operating, the cup seated, left a lot of slop and that caused the gears to jump when under high load. Either way, it's still my fault (oops!).

Oh well. Parts have been ordered and should be here in time to press them on around the end of the week.

Total cost to date is about $220 for 3 gears, 2 gaskets and shipping from 2 places. Still need to get 15 gal of gear lube and 10 gal of hydraulic fluid. That should run about $200, but it was planned for about this time anyway.

Ouch.

jb


I am going to be rebuilding 3 loader cylinders and an alternator while waiting for parts. (yippie)

 

[john_bud]

Hi,

I stuck all of the gears back into the case and measured up everything using the shim packs in the locations they were in at the time of the incident. The countershaft was ok, but the main shaft was loose. I set up a dial indicator and took these pictures as I moved the cluster forward and back. As you can see, there is 0.045" of motion where there should be about none.

Why? well, either I totally goofed up (could be, but I remember testing it), or I sort of goofed up. Huh? My theory is that I didn't get one of the new bearing cups seated all the way down. Then while operating, the cup seated, left a lot of slop and that caused the gears to jump when under high load. Either way, it's still my fault (oops!).

Oh well. Parts have been ordered and should be here in time to press them on around the end of the week.

Total cost to date is about $220 for 3 gears, 2 gaskets and shipping from 2 places. Still need to get 15 gal of gear lube and 10 gal of hydraulic fluid. That should run about $200, but it was planned for about this time anyway.

Ouch.

jb


I am going to be rebuilding 3 loader cylinders and an alternator while waiting for parts. (yippie)

 

[john_bud]

Hi,

I got NEW gears for 2nd and used for the reverse is on the way. Ok, fine so far. Today I went to a buddies to use his press to take apart the gear clusters and put on the new 2nd gears. The main cluster went fine. The countershaft cluster was, well a fuster cluck.

Everything came apart easily. We compared the new gear to the old gear. He put it on the shaft and put the gear selector ring on, uh make that tried to put it on. It would not fit. WTF?
Take it off, put the new and old parts side by side. Ring slips on the old part and is in the "No Way Zone" for the new part. Ain't gonna fit. The little teeth have burrs. Hour of time with a series of small files and the burrs are gone. Trial fit - still No Way. The teeth are too tall and too wide. 2 hours with a die grinder and marking ink and it will fit. It took another hour to make it smooth, and not hog off a tooth.

Cleaned everything up in the parts washer. Put all the gears on the shaft and put the bearing on. UH-0H, the 2nd gear will no longer rotate. Now what? Take it apart. Measure it up. New part is 0.008" taller than the old part. ARRRRGH. Chuck it up in a vice and go after it with 100 micron paper on a DA with 6" disc. Another hour later and it is down to 1-2 mil shorter than the original part. Could have been faster, but didn't want to mess it up.

Cleaned everything up in the PW (man those heated, high pressure non-corrosive parts washers are nice!) and put it all together. Finally, everything is back and smoothly working.

God, I hate NEW parts!


jb

 

[john_bud]

Hi,

I got NEW gears for 2nd and used for the reverse is on the way. Ok, fine so far. Today I went to a buddies to use his press to take apart the gear clusters and put on the new 2nd gears. The main cluster went fine. The countershaft cluster was, well a fuster cluck.

Everything came apart easily. We compared the new gear to the old gear. He put it on the shaft and put the gear selector ring on, uh make that tried to put it on. It would not fit. WTF?
Take it off, put the new and old parts side by side. Ring slips on the old part and is in the "No Way Zone" for the new part. Ain't gonna fit. The little teeth have burrs. Hour of time with a series of small files and the burrs are gone. Trial fit - still No Way. The teeth are too tall and too wide. 2 hours with a die grinder and marking ink and it will fit. It took another hour to make it smooth, and not hog off a tooth.

Cleaned everything up in the parts washer. Put all the gears on the shaft and put the bearing on. UH-0H, the 2nd gear will no longer rotate. Now what? Take it apart. Measure it up. New part is 0.008" taller than the old part. ARRRRGH. Chuck it up in a vice and go after it with 100 micron paper on a DA with 6" disc. Another hour later and it is down to 1-2 mil shorter than the original part. Could have been faster, but didn't want to mess it up.

Cleaned everything up in the PW (man those heated, high pressure non-corrosive parts washers are nice!) and put it all together. Finally, everything is back and smoothly working.

God, I hate NEW parts!


jb