Not using power beyond...plug port or no!

[BadDecisions]

Slightly different, non tractor application...I'm using a Eaton/Charlynn steering valve for hydraulic steering on an off road, rock crawler toy. It's a 5 port Eaton/Charlynn valve with Power Beyond, that I'm not going to immediately use. Using the stock power steering pump on the truck to feed it.

First I tried just straight plugging the PB port. Steering worked awesome...for about 30 seconds until the pump overheated and started smoking the fluid. Spent a few tearing my hair out trying to figure out just what was going on until I found a post on a 4x4 forum that said you can't plug the PB port because it will dead head the pump. Made sense...so I pulled the plug, and ran a hose from the PB port to the return hose on the tank port.

Now it feels like the pump is building zero pressure....and I'm confused again. Am I supposed to be running one of the Power Beyond sleeve...adapter..things in the PB port even if I'm not using the PB function?

 

[Jchonline]

PB should simply extend the flow beyond the pump. On tractors when we unplug something like a backhoe from the PB ports we just close that PB loop as it sounds like you are doing.

 

[BadDecisions]

Ok, so I _should_ have been OK with just plugging that port? As I understand it, I only have 1 PB pressure port on the steering valve, and not a PB return port. 5 ports on the valve, marked T, E, L, R, P.


I currently have the L & R ports going to the steering cylinder, T port going to my filter/cooler/reservoir, and P port from the pump.

I'm then _assuming_ that the port marked E is the Power Beyond port. With it plugged with just a simple threaded plug, that results in what feels like the pump being dead headed, which makes sense as I read elsewhere that the T port is blocked when not steering. Even at idle, the pump body will exceed 300*F in less than 30 seconds, and will literally start to cook the fluid.

 

[/pine]

There should be an insert or bushing inside the PB port...this enables PB...remove the internal insert and replace the plug...this disables PB...

 

[BadDecisions]

I'm not seeing anything that looks like a bushing, insert, or anything removable in the E port -

I do see a 2nd passage drilled horizontally in the bottom of the T port though, and I also noticed fluid forcefully spurting out of the E port while turning the steering wheel to drain the valve for these pictures....which makes me wonder if maybe I should be plugging this port instead, and then using the E port as my return line?

 

[BadDecisions]

That's how I tried it last, though after re-reading my initial post, I can see how that might not have been clear.

Frankly, I'm sure of absolutely nothing at this point, as this is my first go with hydraulic steering.

Current setup, that feels the same engine on or off -

P - connected to pump output.
L & R - connected to either end of the steering cylinder
E & T - hoses ran from each port to either end of a tee fitting, then the 3rd port of the tee feeds to a filter, then cooler, and back to the reservoir.

Previously had the E port plugged with a simple threaded plug, which resulted in what felt like the pump being dead headed.

 

[Tinhack]

Not sure why you only have two lines plumed to your steering valve in the picture.

P = Pump/Pressure. This is plumbed to your pump.

T = Tank. You MUST have this port plumbed to your tank. It is charged while steering.

L&R = Left and Right cylinder(s). Which is L/R is determined by leading or trailing arm steering and how you plumb the cylinder(s). You may have to swap these two lines for correct steering.

E = Excess high pressure or Power Beyond. This port MUST be plumbed to an Open Center valve or to tank return. You can NOT block this port. It is charged when not steering.

You bought a "PB" valve. You can NOT block the port.

 

[BadDecisions]

Because the first picture was taken while I was still fabricating the front end, and wanted a reference of the port legend, as my mount covers it when assembled.

As I noted in my last reply, I have tried it both with 4 hoses connected & blocking that port, AND with all 5 hoses connected. Both ways results in major issues.

 

[Tinhack]

You'll may have to add a relief valve, pilot valve or restrictor to the "E" port to maintain enough pressure to operate a cylinder. Char-Lynn says you can not block the E port entirely. That's what I know.

Just recently went through adding PS to my Kenbota. But I have a 4-port steering valve. My problem is a leaking hose so I have to tear into the dash/column to get to it.

 

[BadDecisions]

Am I supposed to be running one of the Power Beyond sleeve...adapter..things in the PB port even if I'm not using the PB function?

You'll may have to add a relief valve, pilot valve or restrictor to the "E" port to maintain enough pressure to operate a cylinder. Char-Lynn says you can not block the E port entirely. That's what I know.

That's what I was asking in the original post...

 

[RickB]

I had posted but came back and deleted it because my suggestion had apparently already been tried and I decided I don't have any further help. Based on what I know it should work with E and T teed together. Good luck.

 

[Tinhack]

That's what I was asking in the original post...

I got here while you posting your responses to other replies.

I was looking at the Char-Lynn manual. It may be that the E port is not very sophisticated. It's only supposed to have pressure while NOT steering. As mentioned by Rick, it would seem that T and E could be plumbed together and returned to tank. But you said there's not enough pressure to operate a cylinder. Perhaps you aren't turning enough?

Added: Or your cylinder(s) too large?

That's why I said you may have to add a restrictor on the E port but still plumb it back to the tank. You can't just block it.

 

[RickB]

Time to tee E and T together & connect to tank then deadhead a work port (R or L) to a pressure gauge of suitable range. Fire it up and turn the wheel.

 

[npalen]

http://char-lynn.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/CHAR_LYNN_STEERING_CATALOG_ENG.58221037.pdf

Page 6 addresses the power beyond function. Not sure that this is of any help but wanted to throw it "out there" just in case.

Edit: I'm sensing some confusion between a regular SelectorControlValve with power beyond and the steering valve with power beyond.

I'm thinking that a SCV can have power beyond capability with the correct adapter sleeve but the steering motor in question HAS to have the PB port open to either the tank or a downstream valve. Yes, there has to be a relief valve somewhere in the equation.

I'm hoping that your pump wasn't damaged by blocking the PB port.

 

[npalen]

You'll may have to add a relief valve, pilot valve or restrictor to the "E" port to maintain enough pressure to operate a cylinder. Char-Lynn says you can not block the E port entirely. That's what I know.

Just recently went through adding PS to my Kenbota. But I have a 4-port steering valve. My problem is a leaking hose so I have to tear into the dash/column to get to it.

I'm not understanding why one would need to add a relief valve, pilot valve or restrictor to the "E" port. A relief valve, yes, if there is none upstream.

 

[BadDecisions]

Well, turns out that it was the pump after all...I ended up returning it to my original incorrect configuration - E port blocked, T port to tank, and still had no power in the system (this originally provided great power to the steering cylinder, but overheated the pump super fast)

Pulled the T hose, put the end in a bucket, and fired up the motor. Barely a dribble of fluid, even at 3,000RPM. Swapped the pump out with a backup, reconnected both the E and T hoses to the tee, and bingo! Properly working steering!

Thanks for putting up with me

All this said, SHOULD I be running some kind of restrictor or anything else, other than wide open into the tank, on that E port/hose for now? My future plan is to use it for a hydraulic cylinder on the driveline disconnect, but I want to get the truck drivable first.

 

[Tinhack]

There's not supposed to be fluid out of the T port unless you're steering so that is working as it should. All the flow is diverted to the E port in that circumstance. If your future plan is to use the E port, it will only have "excess flow" not used by the steering cylinder(s). The steering cylinder(s) will have priority--As it should.

 

[Tinhack]

I'm not understanding why one would need to add a relief valve, pilot valve or restrictor to the "E" port. A relief valve, yes, if there is none upstream.

That was a suggestion to divert what may have been too little flow from the pump. It looks like the OP changed the pump so nothing else is needed. Disregard that statement.

 

[npalen]

Well, turns out that it was the pump after all...I ended up returning it to my original incorrect configuration - E port blocked, T port to tank, and still had no power in the system (this originally provided great power to the steering cylinder, but overheated the pump super fast)

Pulled the T hose, put the end in a bucket, and fired up the motor. Barely a dribble of fluid, even at 3,000RPM. Swapped the pump out with a backup, reconnected both the E and T hoses to the tee, and bingo! Properly working steering!

Thanks for putting up with me

All this said, SHOULD I be running some kind of restrictor or anything else, other than wide open into the tank, on that E port/hose for now? My future plan is to use it for a hydraulic cylinder on the driveline disconnect, but I want to get the truck drivable first.

Wide open to the tank for now but then to a normally open control valve when adding the cylinder. No restrictor needed as the steering valve takes care of restricting the flow by diverting it to the steering cylinder when needed.
Glad you got it going!

 

[Zebrafive]

Should there be check valve(s) on the T & E lines where they go into the TEE?
So neither port can put pressure into the other port?
Or is that not needed since the TEE is open to tank?