No one believes my problem

[greenfarmranchhome]

Ok this is my first post so let me start off by saying I am of sound mind and do not use drugs so when I describe the problem. I am serious.

I have a MF 165 and have owned it for 3 months. I have used it to feed hay only during this time until last week when I started mowing 30 acres of very tall grass. The 3 point lift has worked fine the entire time minus the pulsing or jumping when raising which I figured was bad seals in the pump. After shredding about 10 acres the 3 point lift just quit. Nothing I did would raise the shredder so I disconnected the shredder and left it then trailered the tractor home. After removing the top plate of the transmission and draining the 7 gallons of hydraulic fluid that was in it I discovered there was no filter assembly at all on the pump. ( base / filter / cap ). I also removed the hydraulic lift cylinder and controls. There were alot of other parts missing. The pickup tube or standpipe was also missing. No one I have talked to understands how the lift has worked at all without this tube. It was also missing a return spring from one of the cams that are just under the top plate. Well, I order all these parts and began to put it back together and discover that there is no piston on the connecting rod in the lift cylinder. I have been told by everyone I have asked that it it absolutly impossible for the lift to work without this piston and I would agree by looking at how this is designed to work except I took this apart. I know that these parts were not there when I pulled it apart and I know the lift has been working for the last 3 months.

When I went and looked at the tractor it was belching hydraulic fluid out the top cover and the guy said he must have over filled the fluid because he just changed the oil. I told him to fix the leak and call me. He did and I bought it.

Is it possible to cram so much fluid in it that it would work without the standpipe and other parts? Can anyone explain this?

Thanks, Aaron

There is a picture of hte tractor at Home Page

 

[mattman]

If there was enough fluid in the cases then yes to your question about not having a pick up tube. If the level remains high enough in the case then the inlet into the pump stays below the fluid level.

Now to the question of the piston missing. I would have to say you are looking at it wrong. The piston absolutley has to be there. Do you have any pictures of the hyd. cylinder removed from the tractor?? There should be some holes where the fluid flows into the cylinder under pressure to make the piston move. Blow some air from a air compressor into the holes in the cylinder and the piston should come out very easily.

 

[greenfarmranchhome]

I am at work today and wont be off until 7 tomorow morning but will look when I get to the house.

 

[greenfarmranchhome]

Here are a few pics
lift cylinder and piston

 

[Misterfixit]

Old MFs that I've had apart don't have the piston connected to the rod by means of a wristpin or anything. The piston is simply concave on the bottom of it where the rounded end of the rod makes contact.

It is probably the case that the piston is just recessed so far up into the cylinder that its hard to see, but as mattman says, it has to be there.

 

[greenfarmranchhome]

It might be there. I felt the inside of the lift cylinder and it felt smooth all hte way up but like you say I might be feeling the piston itself.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

As mentioned, the piston HAS to be there. Same with the standpipe. It MAY have fallen down into the bottom of the sump when you lifted the lift cover off. That happens. Some 100 series DIDN'T have filters. I don't know the serial # breaks, but they generally fall from 1965 to 1967. They will have a pickup tube w/screen, but no filter. With enough oil, the pick up tube can be left off, but not a good idea.


NO WAY can there be enough oil that you won't need the standpipe. (Standpipe and pick up tube are seperate parts as you might already know....Standpipe runs oil flow to remote valve installation point on lift cover) Simply missing the o-ring at the top of the standpipe will disable the lift. No standpipe and it won't hit a lick. Improper re-installation of standpipe is the #1 problem with MF hydraulic systems after repairs/service. Your description of "oil belching out the top cover" sounds very much like the O-ring at the top of the standpipe was missing/defective. Simple replacement, 2 bolts and aboput 2 minutes to fix.

The sump holds just shy of 8 gallons on a total fill. If you dreained 7 gallons, it may have actually been LOW. (but still with-in service limits) (Remember, you're filling tranny/hydraulic sump/rear end all in one...) It can hold close to 9-1/2 gallons by being over-filled. More than that and you'll get oil pouring out the dipstick tube opening.

 

[greenfarmranchhome]

Ok I found the piston. I admit it is in there. It was all the way up in side the cylinder. I dont know what to think about the standpipe. I have cleaned all the fluid out that I can and have not found the old one. I already have a new one to install tomorrow but am concerned at the possibility of the old standpipe rolling around in the tranny. I will give it another look in the morning.

 

[Soundguy]

Ditto what FWJ said... many old trctors have lots of parts on the botom of their sumps..I found many broken dipsticks ont he bottom of my hyd sump in my 8n, and even in the trans sump onmy 5000.. looks like at least one dipstick took a ride onthe trans gears ont he way to the bottom too.. unless they made them looking like the letter 'S'

fish around in there with a telescoping magnet.. I'll bet you find the standpipe and pickup tube.

soundguy

 

[soulasphil]

There is no way to have hydraulic pressure unless the standpipe is properly mounted between the pump and the top cover with an o-ring at each end. You'd better have a good look inside the tractor because that tube is steel and is bound to make a mess if left lying around.
Soulasphil (MF 35)