NH Quality

Yankee · Jan 4, 2004

I've been doing my homework on 20-28 HP compacts for a while now and have narrowed things down to Kubota's 7610 and the NH TC24DA. My question in this forum is NH quality. I think I've read literally every thread in the forums of the major US-sold brands (NH, Kubota, Deere, Massey, etc.), and the principal alternatives (Kioti, Mahindra, a few others) - definitely on TBN and some other sites as well. The one theme I see is more complaints about NH problems than any of the others, bar none (even while praising NH and its dealers in fixing them). Does anyone really know the REALITY of any quality differences among the brands? I know some people stress the commodity aspects of tractors. Still, the posts make me wonder. The NH fit and finish certainly -looks- excellent. Does any organization rate tractors like cars? I'm not talking about one-off Nebraska-type tests, but statistical tracking and reporting.

Specific questions on the TC24: It is significantly taller than the Kubota B, yet has lower clearance by about an inch (even though it is a straddle design while the B has a flat deck). How is that? It is also slightly narrower. Anyone have any balance issues? I like several things about the TC24 - bit of extra weight, bit of extra hydraulic capacity, more weight in the loader bucket, position control, greater 3ph lift capability, etc.

Yankee Bill

Bob_Skurka · Jan 4, 2004

I looked at NH and Kubota this year and bought a NH TC24D in June. I liked both, the dealership made up my mind for me. And I am a Kubota owner. Long story, but the NH dealer treated me very well and the Kubota dealer screwed up.

In retrospect I've had no problems with the NH and it is now my favorite toy. I went back to look at Kubotas after taking delivery of the NH and am glad I got the TC24D, if for no reason other than some of the ergonomics and design features. Not to say the Kubota is a bad machine, it is a good one. I do not have a loader on my NH but from all I see, the NH loader is a great investment and I may be adding it to my tractor next spring; many seem particlarily happy with the visibility, the design as well as the performance. I have a Kubota loader on my B2910 and it is a true workhorse; that is a different loader than you'd get, but it attests to the quality.

I live on some steep hills and I did had EZ weights to the tractor to get the weight down low but I've never had an issue with tipping the machine, but I am careful.

LAGEORGE is the NH expert on problem tractors, with his TC24D. And he has had way more than his share, but that machine is now replaced with a new one. I think that most of the other owners of the TC 18-21-24 machines have been pretty trouble free.

My personal experience is that there is no quality issue with NH or Kubota and both are good machines.

Understand that one feature on one machine may be measured differently than the same feature on another brand. LOA on Kubota is often measured without the 3pt arms, on other brands they include the 3pt arms in the lenght. Weight, height, track and ground clearance are often quoted with AG tires but not always, and may be measuring to different points on the tractor, if you really want to measure the machines the same way, take a tape measure to the dealership and disreagard the brochures! Is ground clearance measured to the bottom of the axle or to the bottom of the frame or to the bottom of the mid-pto? Different spots yield different ground clearances! The same is true with different tires, in terms of weight, overall height and track and is the track measured center-to-center of the tires or is it measured to the outside edge of the tires?

Buy the one you like better, from a dealer who makes you comfortable.

del · Jan 4, 2004

Keep in mind that people normally post about problems more
then not having them so they will appear sometimes.

I have no experience with the new ones but the NH tractors
use a drive line from Shibaura in Japan.

My 1983 Ford is also built by Shibaura, at least the engine
and probably everything but the hood and whatever they added
to upgrade it to US standards

It has been fantastic. It has had about 0 problems in 1300
hours that I haven't caused myself. I also have a new green
tractor and orange tractor. They are also very well built
and if I get the service out of them I have received from this
Ford (NH) I will be a happy camper.

The tractors from brand to brand and model to model are quite
different. As I've posted before, I wish I could throw them
ALL into the soup and pull out my ideal tractor. You just
have to check each out. Try different ones for a couple of
hours, it will really pay off in your long time satisfaction
with your decision.

On your property if at all possible. One of the tractors I
was sure I wanted I discovered after an hour at home would
have been a disaster.

Now after a lot of tire kicking and asking goofy questions
I've got what I want.

Good hunting...

del

Yankee · Jan 4, 2004

Agreed - people post more about problems than perhaps anything else. But - why more NH problem posts? I'm trying to avoid jumping to the conclusion that NH in fact has more problems. Could be, for example, that NH owners here work them more or harder. Could be that the NH forum simply tolerates more of this kind of posting, etc. etc. etc. That's why I asked about statistics and ratings.

I like your suggestion about spending more time in the seat before buying. I think I'll do exactly that. I've got a couple of months anyway.

Yankee Bill

rdam · Jan 4, 2004

( Agreed - people post more about problems than perhaps anything else. But - why more NH problem posts? I'm trying to avoid jumping to the conclusion that NH in fact has more problems. Could be, for example, that NH owners here work them more or harder. Could be that the NH forum simply tolerates more of this kind of posting, etc.
Yankee Bill )

Man, that was a well thought out and politically correct paragraph.

The NH guys are not shy about discussing assorted issues with their machines. I have learned much by reviewing them.

Next time, I'm gonna by a JD. They NEVER have ANY problems. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

snowbound · Jan 5, 2004

( But - why more NH problem posts? I'm trying to avoid jumping to the conclusion that NH in fact has more problems.)

Good. It's very hard to conduct a valid survey based on how many posts occur in the forum. The people reporting to the forum are self-selecting populations. In order to compute rates of problem incidence we would have to control for the difference in the number of owners of the different types, control for demographic variables that could affect the reporting rate.

For an example of the sort of thing you'd have to confront, suppose New Holland customers are coincidentally concentrated with high quality internet providers and Kubota customers were coincidentally concentrated with bad internet providers. It the tractor owner is already annoyed by his tractor being broken, then maybe the additional annoyance of not being able to log into the forum would deter the bad reports of broken Kubotas.

Now I think this is probably _not_ a big factor in what you are seeing, but that doesn't mean it is not a big factor. And whenever you get a survey that comes up with an unexpected answer, then you have to make sure that the unexpected answer isn't really due to some coincidence that isn't ruled out by the survey controls.

There is a whole long list of survey design problems that are "gotchas" for trying to do statistic on survey results. Some classic ones are things like why early political telephone polls were notoriously slanted in favor of Republicans - it took a while before anyone but Republicans had phones! Or "Gerrymandering" - the process of redrawing political boundaries to deliberately skew election results. And those are deliberately designed surveys. Informal analyses based on surveys that were not designed in advance are notorious for proving that up is down and black is white.

Maybe there is a J.D. Power tractor reliability survey?

jwstewar · Jan 5, 2004

I can't give you a lot of advice or experience as I would still consider myself a new tractor owner. When I was shopping I looked at Orange & Green. Was sure I wanted a Kubota. Didn't like the Deere at all. Being fair though I wanted to drive a New Holland. Once I did that I was sold. I really liked the Kubota dealer and was hard giving up on him, but I really liked the NH. The look, the feel, the color, and the smooth running engine. It seemed even smoother than the Kubota which I thought was pretty doggone smooth compared to the Deere. I looked at 2 different NH dealers. I went with the one that I felt the most comfortable with and didn't back talk the other colors or in fact the other NH dealer, but also he gave me the best price. I love my little blue beast. I've had a couple of small issues. The LF tire fell off at about 15 minutes and I had trouble getting the loader off and on. Dealer took care of both of those without a fuss rather quickly. Other than the tractor has been flawless. Now the rear discharge MMM is another story. Haven't had any problems with it other than it doesn't always discharge the grass. If I keep the yard mowed and don't mow when it is wet it is OK though. Just means more seat time. I'm at about 135+ hours getting ready to do the second oil change here shortly. I'm really happy with my purchase and not looking back one bit. Well, maybe a little bit to see how a backhoe would look on the back of it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JerryG · Jan 5, 2004

I wish there was a way for use to have polls. I don't have a Kubota or a New Holland, but it seems to me that the New Holland owners put more hours on their tractors than the Kubota owners. It might not be right, it just may be old age setting in. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BigDave · Jan 5, 2004

A Yankee in Virginia. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

About year & half ago, I was in your shoes. Looking to buy a tractor, but not having a good feeling if I was making the right choice. Prior to finding TBN, it was down to JD or Kubota for me. I followed the suggestions of driving the tractors and getting a feel for the dealerships, since unlike a car, a tractor may be a very long term purchase. Someone at TBN also told me to adjust my expectations, these were tractors & not cars. Expect something to go wrong during the early period, expect scratches in the paint. When I was researching the threads, Kubota's had hydraulic hoses bursting, JD's had wheel clearance problems with the MMM, & NH had stiff control levers. I don't remember what was wrongs with Massey's but they had their problems too. Maybe Kubota has better quality control, since they have fewer complaints. I don't know. The B series were too light & uncomfortable for me, the L series was too big for my needs. NH fit me just right & yes I have had a couple of the generic problems. My 3pt control lever was stiff, but I didn't make any adjustments and it has loosened up on it's own. My hydro response has slowed, but I haven't adjusted it because I like it better now - no abrupt stops. I get a small amount of condensation in my dash every now & then, but maybe I'll get a new one put in during my next service. I blew a 10 amp fuse a few times when the tractor was new, but the problem has gone away now that I start up the tractor properly. Does all of this mean I should have bought another brand? Nothing so far has soured me on NH. I believe I have a solid tractor that will last for many years. If for some reason, I desire to get a new machine, NH will be the first place I look, but I wouldn't rule out any of the other brands, since the hour meter just doesn't count how many hours you engine is running, it also approximates how many hours that you have been behind the wheel. Get the machine that fits you the best and you feel the best about. Don't worry too much about spec-sheets, kick the tires & drive the machines.

Good Luck.

snowbound · Jan 5, 2004

( I wish there was a way for use to have polls.)

We can sure have polls, just don't take them that seriously.

( I don't have a Kubota or a New Holland, but it seems to me that the New Holland owners put more hours on their tractors than the Kubota owners.)

Yikes I hope not! I got a New Holland and I'm happy with it; but I want as few hours as possible.