NH 1925 steering column leaking hydraulic fluid

[AlanB]

Hello gents, it has been a while but I have had some long term problems with my 1925 FWD that have gotten bad enough that now I need to address them.

My steering column is leaking power steering fluid from the little plastic plug under the steering wheel. I believe that many of these were built with a snap ring and a serviceable seal and o-ring underneath there. Mine is crimped together at the top and there is one side of me that is saying pry the crimps apart and figure out how to rebuild the thing, the other side of me is just spend the $400 and move forward with a new one.

Has anyone cut or pushed back out the crimps and can give me some insight into rebuilding that steering column?

My steering cylinder is bent as well as a pretty good gouge out of it, unfortunately NH does not support it with parts, and even though Messicks shows a rebuilt, there are none available. Looks like about $800 for a new one. That is in the department of making me sad. I dropped it at a friends shop today and they are going to look at making a new shaft etc, and getting rebuild parts for it and getting it put together for me. I am hoping that comes in at less than $800. I am picturing about $500.

ended up cutting one of the power steering hoses to get the lines off, apparently they decided not to use any swivels so I need to get a new one made up. At least one will get a swivel fitting. Probably just change them both out and put swivels on both while I am there.

Anyone fooled around in there with these systems and can provide some insight?

 

[TractorTech]

Hi, first off, the top of the column is not your problem. The column is bolted (4 bolts at the bottom of the column) to the steering motor which has a seal leaking. I have take these apart and the kit can reseal them. Sometimes water gets into this area though and pits the shaft where the seal rides. Then, you might as well replace the motor. I found an aftermarket motor for one a while back.
There is a complete motor seal kit depending on serial number that is either $161 (Jan 96 - Nov 96) or $239 (after Nov 96). Take a look at the diagram attached. 1A, 2, 4 and 5 are the part needed, but they total up pretty close to the price of the cheaper kit.

 

[AlanB]

Thank you so much, I am digging into it today I think.
And you know, mine was made in 97 ;-)

Thank you for the help.

Alan

 

[AlanB]

OK, well, had the steering cylinder rebuilt, replaced the steering box, replaced the cylinder lines, replaced the filter / reservoir. Now I need to get it to bleed.


Any tips or suggestions? I thought it would self bleed, and it may, the reservoir is directly over the pump so I figured that it would just gravity fill and then pump it through but have not got it worked out yet.

I have not started breaking lines loose yet, I figured I would talk with the great helpful folks at Midwest steering tomorrow, but I thought that I would ask here as well.

Thanks

Alan

 

[AlanB]

just a follow on for folks that read this later. (or myself)
Steering cylinder had rebuilt by local machine shop. Cut end off shaft, machined new shaft from shaft stock, new seals etc. etc. and welded end onto newly manufactured shaft and gave me back a working straight cylinder. $425
Still not sure how they assembled the silly thing, but neither line had a swivel. Ended up cutting one so I could spin the other out. Probably could have worked my way up the solid lines but did not want to take apart any more than necessary. The lines are BSP to start, miserable crap same OD as a NPT (1/4") and one thread per inch off. Once I figured it out, everywhere I looked warned me of this, but it is sure frustrating when you are not realizing what is happening. The 1/4 NPT will thread in and feel fine for about 1 revolution..... then lock up, you will scratch your head trying to figure out what is going on.
So, Southern Fluid Power hooked me up with 4 BSP to JIC adapters and 2 custom Jic lines for about $60 I may have to play with lengths a bit later, and they may wear more than original because the hard fittings make everything tight, but easy to service and align now, and standard easy to get fittings for me on these lines. Consider it a win.
As was mentioned above, it was not the steering column on mine but the gearbox below it that was leaking and puking oil into the column. Disassembled looking to rebuild and got in way over my head (while watching closely had pieces fall and not seeing where they came from) If you do it, be super careful! I would photograph each step. just because 10 bolts are the same, does not mean # 11 will be.
At some point read / realized that the fine folks at Midwest Steering also rebuilt these things as well as supply parts. Sent it to them to rebuild and they called back and said center shaft was too bad to be worth fooling with (what i suspected) and offered me a Smoking deal on a new one, which I wont post here, but I think a new one on their website is like $600 which seems stupid expensive until you look at NH website. Anyway, they definitely took care of me and got me in a new unit, new orings, identified which fittings etc and a good drawing etc. Got everything back together and was super happy till I went to operate and it would not pick up fluid and operate. (also changed filter / resorvoir to the tune of $115 dealer only)

So tried to bleed, talked to folks at Midwest to make sure there was nothing unusual and commenced to bleeding, could not get anything to pick up and go, was scratching my head trying to figure out why not and while sitting there Pump picked up and everything started bleeding. Still not sure exactly what the magic sauce was there, but got it all bled, clean fluid flowing, topped everything up and probably have 10 to 15 hours operation on it now with no problems or loss of fluid. Got to love that.

I hope this helps someone down the line.

 

[thclimer]

AlamB, Thanks for letting us know how you fixed your and the details on the fittings.

I'm always amazed at the large number of different types/styles of hydraulic fittings and the thread variations, but just think of all the unique applications of hydraulics and what a valuable "tool" they are!

 

[Mikey201]

just a follow on for folks that read this later. (or myself)
Still not sure how they assembled the silly thing, but neither line had a swivel. Ended up cutting one so I could spin the other out. Probably could have worked my way up the solid lines but did not want to take apart any more than necessary. The lines are BSP to start, miserable crap same OD as a NPT (1/4") and one thread per inch off. Once I figured it out, everywhere I looked warned me of this, but it is sure frustrating when you are not realizing what is happening. The 1/4 NPT will thread in and feel fine for about 1 revolution..... then lock up, you will scratch your head trying to figure out what is going on.
So, Southern Fluid Power hooked me up with 4 BSP to JIC adapters and 2 custom Jic lines for about $60 I may have to play with lengths a bit later, and they may wear more than original because the hard fittings make everything tight, but easy to service and align now, and standard easy to get fittings for me on these lines. Consider it a win.
I hope this helps someone down the line.

AlanB - -Thank You for posting your experiences of this repair. I ran into the same issue with the fittings. I had to replace both hoses as something must have pushed the lines up into the bottom pully on the engine and the Key Shaped Pully just had a wonderful time chewing them up.

I'll have to admit I didn't know what you were referring to regarding "BSP" or "JIC". For those that might read this reply, they are different styles of thread patterns with BSP being British. The shop that made my replacements didn't pick up on the tread pattern when the made the replacement hoses and they ended up remaking them again. I'd suggest to anyone replacing the hoses for the power steering to take the bulk head that goes thru the frame of the tractor with them when they go to have the hoses made and tell them the threads are BSP.

I'm trying to figure out how to prevent debris from getting up near the hoses to prevent this from happening again. The tractor doesn't seem to have any sort of Skid plate protection.

Anyway, Thank You for your post! I'm a TN Native living in SC now.

 

[Mikey201]

Update: I found an 'L' shaped bracket that is rubber coated on the long side and decided to use it to help keep the new hoses out of the bottom pully on the engine. The natural curvature of the hose has a tendency to spring up near the pully. So, I installed this bracket and used the bolt (8mm) holding the protective cage on the exhaust side to mount it. The bracket goes up and over the frame near the hose. I was able to bend it down to restrict the hoses from spring up into the pully yet is is still free to move left & right as needed.

Only time will tell but I think this should help prevent any future damage to the hoses by the pully. I still think some sort of Skid Plate on the bottom (at least in certain locations) would help prevent a lot of damages encountered in the field.