New wheels for L3130?

jam777 · Nov 25, 2005

I currently have a set of Agricultural tires on my tractor, but they seem a bit narrow and being a newbie they seem a little "tippy" on some slopes. So I think I'd like to upgrade to a set of Industrials for more stability. Does anybody have any suggestions or know of a good place to buy them from online?

Any help would be great.

JimMorrissey · Nov 25, 2005

Are you looking for "wheels" (sometimes known as rims) or are you looking tires? Or wheels and tire combinations so you have the option of Ags and turf or industrials....

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 25, 2005

( I think I'd like to upgrade to a set of Industrials for more stability )

Jam:

I'm not a tractor expert, but I play one on the internet. Before I bought my tractor, I did a disproportionate amount of my research on tires. One of the conclusions I came away with was that for traction and stability (especially stability on side slopes, i.e. not sliding sideways), nothing beats ags. R4's were often chosen as a good compromise between turfs and ags when ground damage was a consideration, and for their toughness (puncture resistance and durability on pavement).

If by "tippy" you mean that it seems that your tractor is sitting up too high because of the deep lugs, compare the rolling circumference and/or diameter of the ags vs. the R4's and see if there really is much of a difference. I don't have the figures handy on the standard tire dimensions, but there's probably not too appreciable a difference. Plus, those ag lugs will probably lose height faster than R4 lugs, but that's a WAG on my part.

As a fellow newbie (I have 560 hours total seat time on turfs only), maybe you don't quite know what to expect as far as tippiness? Cows, canoes and tractors tip. (BTW, wear your seatbelt [ROPS up], no seatbelt [ROPS down]).

Also, some (most, almost all?) tractor wheels can be turned around to adjust the width of the track. Are yours set as wide as you can set them?

Lastly, one thing I found out about the R4's that come on Kubotas (Grand L xx30's anyway) is that they have lead/lag ratios that are way off - way too much lag. (Around -3% lead/3% lag or so - "unacceptable" by most accounts). Ever look at a Grand L with R4's and get the feeling that the fronts looked kinda small? They are. Something to think about before you switch to them. (Before anyone gets out their blowtorch, I talked to Kubota and they all but admitted this. Told me to over-inflate my fronts to compensate).

Hope this helps,

John D.

Theowegian · Nov 25, 2005

what do you mean by over inflate the fronts to compensate?

please, explain???

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 26, 2005

Hiya Dwight -

You're a banjo picker I see! I would LOVE to be able to play the banjo lick from "Old Man" (Neil Young). Do you know it? Man, that is one tasty lick. Anyway, nice to meet you, I've really enjoyed your posts.

I consider this lead/lag thing a very interesting subject. When I was in the process of selecting tires for my 5030, I researched the suitability of Michelin XM27's and ended up getting a set, along with a set of Titan turfs, and two sets of wheels. (Ease of swapping, plus different wheel sizes).

Along the way, I had to calculate the lead/lag ratio of all the different tires (standard ag (R1), R4, turf (R3), and the XM27's, technically an R1-W. "W" stands for "wet" - see Glennmac's posts, and his battle with the Oozama Verboten).

For the uninitiated, as I was, a MFWA (aka 4WD) tractor is supposed to have the front tires covering more ground than the rears, by about 1 or 2%. This is called "lead", and is necessary, or at least highly desirable, so that (when in 4WD) the fronts (with less traction than the rears) are digging in and helping to pull the rears along, rather than having the more powerful rears (in a lag situation) pushing the fronts along, thereby diminishing their ability provide traction, and reducing steerability.

According to many, many sources I contacted or researched (Michelin, Titan, Pete's Tire Barn, online resources, anyone who seemed to know anything), ANY amount of lag is unacceptable. The stock R4's being sold with Grand L's, at least at that time (April '04) had a lag ratio of more than 3%. It might seem like much, but evidently it is off-the-charts bad.

When I called this to Kubota's attention, they squirmed a bit, said they had meetings to go to, shuffled me around, and finally said something to the effect of "Yeah, well, sometimes some compromises have to be made due to procurement procedures and contractual obligations with suppliers, but if you boost the air pressure in the fronts, that might help somewhat by increasing their rolling circumference to bring the lag ratio to a less unacceptable level". Naturally, I passed on that advice.

I also had a very interesting exchange in which I was told that using the Michelin XM27's would void my warranty because they would provide "too much traction" and could put too much stress on the drivetrain. I said to myself, "Now THOSE are the tires for me!" I think I ordered them the same day /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In Kubota's defense, a certain amount of slippage is probably required with any tire, and I will use them with caution. It'll be interesting to see if I can break them free or not. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(Nope haven't even tried them yet, per my post, "5030 skidder pics etc. Too wide for my trailer. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) I'll certainly give a review as soon as I can, next spring I guess - the chains are going on the turfs for winter.

John D.

slowzuki · Nov 26, 2005

2 points,

Do you have your ag's set to the widest position and,

Do you have your tires filled?

Both these help stability. I'm going to try and attach a file showing the 3130's ag's at widest setting, it is from someones post here on TBN.

3130 with wide tire setting

Theowegian · Nov 26, 2005

Thanks for the explanation. It helped a lot.
Maybe I can increase the front tire pressures a bit...mine run at 14 psi right now, (as my L3130 warms up out front). I wonder if 20 psi is a bit better??? IN your research, is that about right?

About that banjo lick. No, I dont know Old Man, by Neil Young, but Im gonna try and find it.

About favorite banjo licks:
If you have a New Grass Revival album with the tune, Love Someone Like Me, Bela Fleck has an absolutely unbelieveable lick in that tune. Amazing! First time I heard it, almost fell out of my chair...amazing picker, that Bela Fleck.

dwight

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 26, 2005

Dwight:

Thanks for the tip about Bela Fleck, I will without a doubt buy that CD just on that recommendation. I have heard him, but not with a careful enough ear. Thanks for clueing me in. I know a couple who routinely drive hours to see Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, so he's GOTTA be good. Looking forward to hearing that lick!

"Old Man" is on the album (album? wazzat?) "Harvest", a classic by Neil Young, recorded with the help of some of his friends - Steven Stills, Graham Nash, David Crosby, Linda Ronstadt, James Taylor, John Harris on piano, and the London Symphony Orchestra. I hope you do listen to it, and enjoy it as much as I do.

On the tire pressure thing - no, I would not recommend increasing your tire pressure A) over the manufacturer's recommended maximum pressure as indicated on the tire, B) to a pressure higher than that which will give your tire the proper functionality for the task(s) at hand (often a pressure less than "A"), or C) to a pressure that would appreciably increase the tire's rolling diameter to anywhere near that which would even begin (IMHO) to have any significant impact on the lead/lag ratio. Such a pressure would HAVE to be MUCH higher than "A". It's a tire, not a balloon. That is why I dismissed with extreme prejudice Kubota's suggestion that I do so. In fact, as much as I eschew the use of "negative adjectives", which I consider a form of attack, I am sorely tempted to dimiss their advice as "ridiculous".

Regarding "B" above, it is beneficial to use as low a pressure as possible that will still get the job done and not cause your tires undue hardship. For instance, the Michelin XM27 ag (radials) can (should be?) run at 9 psi in the rears, allowing maximum traction and footprint, while minimizing ground pressure.

Also, this ( (as my L3130 warms up out front). ) brings to mind a very informative thread that I recommend to anyone who owns a diesel engine. Good stuff. Here's the link:

To idle or shut off - which is best?

It's not just about idling, it also gets into warmup practices. After reading the comments in it, I now warm up and idle much differently. (Warm up at higher speeds w/ gentle load, and idle faster at all times).

Lastly, a friend just walked into my shop and raved about a Bela Fleck collaboration with Edgar Maier (sp?) on cello, he says its GREAT. Maybe you've heard it? I'm about to.

Best wishes, John D.

jam777 · Nov 26, 2005

I guess your right, I should've been a bit more clearer. I'm looking to get an entire new set of R4 tires including the rims. (preferably mounted)

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jam777 · Nov 26, 2005

(Do you have your ag's set to the widest position) 

I know for a fact that the rear wheels are set at their widest, but the fronts, however, are not. I had planned on turning them around for a wider stance only to find out that the manual doesn't recommend I do this. Is there a reason for this?

 (Do you have your tires filled?) 

I have about 32 psi of pressure all the way around. No ballast.