New Holland Lemon

[Sandy Boot Ranch]

I have a 2017 New Holland T4 110. The Def system is still under warranty. It has been back to the dealer 4 times with the same code, but they only 吐ix it for a short time. Forced regen is always the first diagnosis then a return trip. Customer service just wants to keep being a liaison between me and the dealer without offering to repair anything without an error code for that part. The dealers say there are many recalls but New Holland will not replace parts like car recalls. Has anyone had this issue or had help from New Holland more than me?

 

[blitzn00]

Sorry for your troubles. I don't have a NH, but I am very versed in these Diesel Particulate Systems. If you understand the systems, it may help you to understand what the dealer is doing and what you might ask them to do next. First, you say "DEF", that is an acronym for diesel emission fluid (which is an ammonia and water mixture). It's used in a SCR (selective catalytic system) and used to reduce NOx emissions. These systems do not have regens (regenerations). "DPF" stands for diesel particulate filter. It is a cordierite or ceramic filter that traps soot. When the soot builds up enough it needs to be cleaned out. This is accomplished by a regen (meaning regenerating the filter). A regen entails getting the exhaust temperature up high enough to burn off the accumulated soot. Some systems are called active, meaning they actively add heat to the exhaust - mostly in tractors by injecting diesel fuel into the a burner in the exhaust stream. Most systems are passive meaning there is no way to add heat - you MUST get the exhaust temps up high enough by loading the engine. Please note: high rpm does not mean high temperature, high rpm coupled with high load = high temps. The burning temps for soot or a regen (without a catalyst inline) is about 700 degree C. Lastly, the way a tractor knows it needs a regen is thru a pressure sensor. When the back pressure on the engine side of the filter reaches xx pressure, the system tries to regen. If your temps do not get high enough, then the regen doesn't work (that's why these active systems are so prevalent now - because these small engines have trouble making enough heat).

So, if your DPF system is a passive system, the best thing you can do for it is to always run it as hot as possible. The likely short term answer, if you have the tractor with you, is to find a way to really load the engine - like go plow a field at high rpms (high load and high rpm's) and you should achieve a good passive regen. If you do get a good regen, then keep the DPF as clean as possible by always running the engine hot.

I hope this helps - BTW - I own a LS and they have an active DPF system, so far I haven't experienced any issues. Personally, I think active systems are the way to go on compact tractors.

 

[Sandy Boot Ranch]

Thanks for the info, I knew how the systems work but not that much detail. I used “def” to refer to the whole exhaust treatment system because that is what the error code would be. I never idle very long but I did not always run the tractor above 1700 rpm, which seems to be where it should run. They replaced the def sensor in the tank before. I just got the tractor back and with some convincing, the “Def sending unit” was replaced. Hope this fixes it. Even someone at the dealer said Lemon but quickly tried to correct himself. Lol. Hmmm

 

[Jackfr]

I have a 2017 New Holland T4 110. The Def system is still under warranty. It has been back to the dealer 4 times with the same code, but they only 吐ix it for a short time. Forced regen is always the first diagnosis then a return trip. Customer service just wants to keep being a liaison between me and the dealer without offering to repair anything without an error code for that part. The dealers say there are many recalls but New Holland will not replace parts like car recalls. Has anyone had this issue or had help from New Holland more than me?

We have a 2017 NH T4.90 with same problems numerous 19336 and 19071 codes over 14 since new. Been having them since we purchased it new in July of 2018 along with many other problems with the tractor, from the loader brackets failing numerous times to DEF tank leaks to loader valve issues, remote valve issues front wheels breaking it goes on....

The New Holland tractors are not what the use to be. I would of been better off keeping my old ones and rehabbing them, even if it meant a complete rebuild. We bought new replacement tractors so as not to have problems We've had a lot less issues with our old New Hollands and Fords then the issues, problems and break downs with these new ones!!

It was getting to costly to continually send it back to the dealer for warranty work (3 hours away)or have them come here as the warranty only covers working on it not transport to or from the dealer or travel time and mileage for a dealer tech to come here. I found and purchased a laptop with the interface and software on the internet and can now connect to the tractor to reset codes diagnose problems etc. I was instructed by the dealer never to idle below 1100 rpm (why isn't it set this way from the factory) and most times the codes set are when I have been working the tractor hard at rated speed (Hard to the point it actually starts to bog down at times) for quite awhile (Over an hour working hard so plenty hot enough)!!!!

I have found that it appears that the DEF injector is leaking/dribbling when it shuts off causing crystallization on the tip of the injector which is causing a high pressure blockage which sets code 19336. If you remove the injector from the exhaust(a real PIA) clean the tip with clean water reinstall and run the system test with the software you can then reset the counter, which clears the code and you are all set until the next time it happens.

I believe the entire DEF system is under warranty for 5 years and our power train extended warranty is for 5 years/3000 hrs. But after that the parts are so costly dealer lists $800+/- for the injector $5000 + for the catalyst we'll be looking for a DEF Delete kit soon. Others on TBN have said they are going through an injector nozzle every 1000 hrs, our nozzle appears it has been bad since day 1.

Hopefully the Federal Government will pass a right to repair law that will help Farmers/tractor owners with access to software, interfaces and online dealer repair info (like NH's Assist program) to assist with farmers/tractor owners making repairs to their own equipment.

Good luck with yours.

 

[Sandy Boot Ranch]

You are more loyal to your tractor than me. I am looking to get out this NH. If a company knows there is a problem and won’t fix it, I must go to another color.

 

[blitzn00]

Well...I've learned something. I didn't do any research (and should have) but it sounds like your NH has a SCR system not a DPF system. Very interesting-so you actually have to put DEF in a tank? Then you have a SCR system. Do you know if you have a DPF system as well? There are no potential blockages with a SCR system related to DEF, only with PM (DPF system). SCR systems have a catalyst so if the engine runs and you have power then you're good to go! The system will not reduce NOx but you can run it with no adverse effects (to the engine - there are obviously adverse effects to the environment). Potentially the ECU is smart enough to put the the engine into limp mode when the SCR system throws a code, but if it doesn't then just run it like you stole it!

 

[ruffdog]

SCR system uses DEF..........you MUST not contaminate your DEF fluid and it doesn't take much to do that:

DEF Contamination and how to avoid it

 

[Jackfr]

You are more loyal to your tractor than me. I am looking to get out this NH. If a company knows there is a problem and won稚 fix it, I must go to another color.

No longer loyal to NH or any brand, but from what I have heard all the tractors in this HP range that are required to use DEF (SCR System) by the EPA are having these problems and we are still underwater with this tractor with 1200 hrs on it now so...

I figure I will eventually get ours working without the DEF system and more dependable, as I have already remade the loader brackets and added a soft ride to help with the front wheels. I know at least 6 folks with JD Tractors along with others with trucks, larger excavators and dozers from other brands are having the same issues with the EPA requirements codes codes codes. The only way around it is to hack the newer equipment or to buy older equipment before these requirements and rebuild or continue to pay through the nose to keep running.

 

[Sandy Boot Ranch]

It is “compact SCR +Light CEGR” to be exact from NH. The system has too many sensors. Even if the def is fine, as it was replaced and checked by the dealer, it may still code as bad if the sensor inside the tank throws a code. There is a Nox sensor, that is known to fail. ANY code will reduce your power and then slow you to an idle with no way to override it unless you have the computer. Most hay balers around here run older equipment before Def requirement. If it does break down they know they can repair it in the field with good old wrenches and elbow grease. Don’t know how much my 195 hours of running in 2 years would have polluted the environment without this system. (Sarcasm). Semi truckers might need it but average farm tractors are not a big problem.

 

[ruffdog]

Even if the def is fine, as it was replaced and checked by the dealer, it may still code as bad if the sensor inside the tank throws a code. .

Once the fluid is contaminated, it is about impossible to clean everything out to guarantee the problem has been solved. Sometimes the entire tank, filter, sensors, etc has to be swapped. Always use fresh DEF fluid in its own container. Never reuse a jug that was used for something else. Be cautious of bulk tanks as even a non-approved pipe fitting can render the fluid contaminated.