New Holland, Are they asleep at the switch?

TCowner · Jan 12, 2006

Let me tell you what triggered this post.

My brother is moments away from placing an order for a new John Deere 4720, CX self leveling loader, 72" midmount mower and 6' rotary cutter. I'm trying to talk him into the air suspension seat option. I'm also suggesting the "I-match" three point hitch attachment as well as the skid steer bracket and third hydraulic option that adds hydraulic hoses to the front of the loader.

All of his talk has my juices flowing again.

I currently own a two year old TC40DA with just under 400 hours. I traded a two year old TC40D with 350 hours on this tractor. Prior to the two New Holland tractors I owned a 4300, 4400 and 4600 JD compact utility tractors.

I contacted my New Holland dealer to what, if any, new tractors are coming from New Holland. He said he had heard nothing but there was a meeting coming up in a month or so but that nothing appeared likely. I asked him about any factory cab option and he said that it would be at least a year away.

I have a Curtis cab on my TC because I prefer not to have a cab on during the non-winter months. But the fact that New Holland hasn't met the Kubota and John Deere challenge in this area has me thinking that their marketing and engineering folks may be a little behind and not keeping pace.

I like my TC40DA (and the D model before) and have had very few problems. With the exception of the sticky hydro pedal on the first tractor and the incorrect injection timing problem with the second tractor they have been basically bullet proof. So in this regard maybe I should be happy that New Holland isn't rushing to bring a new model to the market.

The class III boomers from New Holland are essentially the same tractor as when introduced 6 years ago. I just think it may be time to add some features and power. I love the size of this tractor and the visibility is probably the feature I enjoy the most. But New Holland could up the power so at least to offer a hydrostatic 50 pto hp tractor like the 4720 JD.

I have no immediate plans to "jump ship" back to JD but when my brother takes delivery (April) I hope I just don't get the urge.

NHeuro · Jan 12, 2006

Hi, I own NH and Fords since years.
I also owned a tc 45 da.
This was a very nice tractor but i had very much problems with it so at 220 h i traded it in for a Nh tce 50 with cab.
This tractor is (for me) a better tractor:
- it is smaller
- more power
- ...

At the beginning I wasn't sure if the manual tranny was a good chose for mowing and i mow most of the time.
But it is easy to use, and i am happy with my chose.

I agree with your opinion, a "new " new holland tc 40-45 will would be fine.
The engine and hydro are good quality, very good.
But the deere is also a great tractor, the Yanmar engine is as good as the shibaura.
But if i may ask it, what would you do with your tractor?
Have you thought at the tc 48-55 da series?

NHeuro · Jan 12, 2006

Have a look a t my pics
http://www.tractorbynet.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=24643

I will say something about the hydro.
Now i have a manual transmission and my hydro was a bit easier.
But a manual transmission will work also very good.
Believe me, you could live w/o a hydro and very easy.
I don't think i will ever go back to a hydro.
I put it in gear and put my rpm at 1800 rpm and on the straight lines i put it at 2200 with my foot, so now i use me engine to slow down and this works also great.
and i have the same mow result!

jinman · Jan 12, 2006

( My brother is moments away from placing an order for a new John Deere 4720, CX self leveling loader, 72" midmount mower and 6' rotary cutter. I'm trying to talk him into the air suspension seat option. I'm also suggesting the "I-match" three point hitch attachment as well as the skid steer bracket and third hydraulic option that adds hydraulic hoses to the front of the loader.

All of his talk has my juices flowing again. )

Hello TCowner...haven't seen you around these parts in awhile. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You said that all your brother's talk has your juices flowing, but aren't you glad it's his money that's flowing? Let us know what he pays for that machine so we can go shopping at the NH dealer for the same amount of money. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I know...I know...
Innovation has its cost, but for those people who don't need a cab or an auto-leveling loader (with a broken QA bracket?), the NH will still fit their needs. Not everyone will feel the need to have all the innovations, but rather they will opt for additional HP or maybe move up to a TN with cab. I think NH is #3 because they want to be #3. I think that's just their niche. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

TCowner · Jan 12, 2006

Jim, You are right about the price of the JD. Its going to be expensive. My brother is trading a 12 year old JD 855 so the trade difference is going to be substantial. I also realize with the same money I probably could get into a larger New Holland but I just couldn't live without the hydro.

All I want from New Holland is some new features to keep my excitment. I would like to see some more horsepower in this class. If JD can do it I'm certain New Holland can as well but it needs to be a hydro. However, the extra horsepower is of little value if the hydro relief pressure allows the tractor to stall like it does now.

I believe you posted a couple of years ago that the hydro relief pressure was set at the same level for all class III tractors so there was little to gain going to say a TC45 over the TC35 with the exception of a smoother running 4 cylinder engine.

A friend of mine has a JD 4610 and there appears to be more "oomph" when using the loader in tough conditions. The difference doesn't show but only in the toughest digging.

I just think after 6 years of basically the same tractor that New Holland could give us some new goodies. Something like an air suspension seat, ability to control three point operation from behind the tractor, higher capacity alternator for more work lights, New Holland equivalent to JD's I-match, etc,

JD offers the 6' mid mount mower for their larger hydro tractors. New Holland only offers the 7' which is too large in my view. I would buy a 6' mower for my New Holland

Again, I'm not after a complete re-design of the Class III Boomer. More power with more hydro capacity is needed in this class.

Perhaps New Holland likes being #3 but the things I'm talking about would just make the tractors more profitable. THe JD price jumps about 2 grand for each level of increased hp. Of course New Holland does the same. It seems to me that my dealer wanted another 2 grand to move up the 45D over the 40D.

In all likelihood I will stay with New Holland. I may even look at another trade this spring as my warranty is set to expire. But if 3 or 4 years down the road the Class III boomer is the same tractor we are running today I could see myself taking a strong look at JD again.

dqdave1 · Jan 12, 2006

I agree; I went to my dealer 2 years ago and said I wanted to trade my 1999 TC-29 on a new TC-33 as I am happy with the class 2 sizing for what I do with it but would take the extra HP. When I heard that nothing had changed I kept mine and emailed new holland to ask when changes wwere coming on the TC-33. NO ANSWER; just a run around. CNH needs to make changes just like automotive companies as long as there are owners who will trade to get the new goodies. I traded a 1320 on the " new boomer" because it answered some problems of the "old machine" that was 1 year old.

MessickFarmEqu · Jan 13, 2006

We get very frustrated with how slowly New Holland responds to market changes and needs. For instance, that Cab tractor has been in the works for at least 5 or 6 years... there is now a prototype floating around and it will finally ship soon. By contrast Kubota goes from design to a production tractor in under two years and ships 6-7 new tractors a year. Certian New Holland designs like the TC29/33 Chasis are really old and should have been updated like the rest of the family years ago. There are pricing issues with the class 1 tractors that make CNH 2000-2500+ more expensive than Kubota at that size. All the US based people know this, they seem to want to push the company forward in this market but they complain of being held back by FIAT who ultimatly controls the direction of the company. They have a good product, I am a real fan of the TC40-45, however they just seem to have no drive to get themselves out of the #3 spot in this market.

SacandagaBrad · Jan 13, 2006

( There are pricing issues with the class 1 tractors that make CNH 2000-2500+ more expensive than Kubota at that size. )

Talk about your dealer and regional location/trends making a difference. 2 1/2 years ago, my best price was on a TC-24D compared to the Botas. And I could have waited for the DA for about the same price according to the dealers, but I wanted it then and like the lights better.

Brad

MessickFarmEqu · Jan 14, 2006

the difference has exagerated in the last two years since New Holland has had several price increases due to steel costs and Kubota has only had one very small increase. Three years ago the gap was not nearly as large as it is today.