New cutter needs PTO adaptation

[wwalkersd]

The therapeutic riding center where I volunteer just picked up this heavily used cutter:

I believe it's a Woods Dixie Cutter model M5-4 (which is irrelevant to my question).

The tractor end of the PTO shaft (not shown in the photo) has a coupler that requires a pin through it. The Over-Running Clutch on the Ford 2N we're going to use it with doesn't have a hole through the shaft (nor do most modern tractor PTO shafts, AFAIK).

So, I have a few choices:

1) Buy a new ORC with a hole for about $70

2) Buy a new yoke with a QD coupler for about $40.

3) Buy a whole new PTO shaft for $100-$300.

I'm leaning towards option 2. I found the manual for the tractor, and Woods offered a QD yoke listed as "1-3/8 Spline QD Yoke L14R" (nobody online lists this part. Gonna call a dealer, but I'm betting against it). I'm assuming the L14R is a universal joint series spec. But the closest thing I can find listed is a 14N. I haven't been able to find a site that explains these u-joint series numbers to me.

So the real question is, is "14N" compatible with "L14R"?

P.S. Before somebody mentions it, yes, I'm planning to install some sort of chain shielding front and rear before we use it. Gotta search the forums for the threads I've already seen on building 'em, because the Woods ones are $275 front and $295 rear, which would be nearly double what we paid for the mower!

 

[sandman2234]

Unless I missed something in my hurried reading, I think there is another option. Have you considered just drilling the hole in the one you have? Drill press, milling machine or farm it out, but I don't think I would use a hand held drill motor, unless your experienced at drilling holes in steel with what you have. (too easy to get off centered with a hand drill)
David from jax

 

[greg_g]

Personally I'd get a whole new PTO shaft assembly. That way you don't have to worry about matching up the missing half of what may end up being an obsolete assembly. And they're available for considerably less than $100. AgriSupply has'em starting around fifty bucks: http://www.agrisupply.com/category.asp?c=3500010&action=showall&ipp=5000&sb=1&x=8&y=10

//greg//

 

[wwalkersd]

Unless I missed something in my hurried reading, I think there is another option. Have you considered just drilling the hole in the one you have? Drill press, milling machine or farm it out, but I don't think I would use a hand held drill motor, unless your experienced at drilling holes in steel with what you have. (too easy to get off centered with a hand drill)
David from jax

Well, I do have a tabletop drill press (used for one project), but aren't these shafts made from very hard metal? Although I suppose a machine shop wouldn't charge me too much to drill one hole.

 

[wwalkersd]

Personally I'd get a whole new PTO shaft assembly. That way you don't have to worry about matching up the missing half of what may end up being an obsolete assembly. And they're available for considerably less than $100. AgriSupply has'em starting around fifty bucks: http://www.agrisupply.com/category.asp?c=3500010&action=showall&ipp=5000&sb=1&x=8&y=10

//greg//

Well, I'm a little partial to the existing shaft because it has a slip clutch (though who knows whether it works?).

I see those shafts in different "grades" on Agrisupply, e.g., GR1, GR4, etc. Is there a translation to HP ratings somewhere? Yes, I AM totally new to PTO-driven implements.

 

[greg_g]

Well, I'm a little partial to the existing shaft because it has a slip clutch (though who knows whether it works?).

I don't see one in the picture. Any slip clutch I'm familiar with is too big to fit under that square shroud. That said, the same website has probably a hundred or more different weld-on yokes. But they're no good unless you have the other half of the shaft. Or is that just not in your photo? If you don't have it, the same site again has both inner and outer shaft halves with yokes attached.

I see those shafts in different "grades" on Agrisupply, e.g., GR1, GR4, etc. Is there a translation to HP ratings somewhere?

I don't know the literal translation of those ID codes, but they represent compressed length - not grade. Can't point you directly to it, but there should be a chart on there somewhere - that associates ID with length.

//greg//

 

[RickB]

The therapeutic riding center where I volunteer just picked up this heavily used cutter:

I believe it's a Woods Dixie Cutter model M5-4 (which is irrelevant to my question).

The tractor end of the PTO shaft (not shown in the photo) has a coupler that requires a pin through it. The Over-Running Clutch on the Ford 2N we're going to use it with doesn't have a hole through the shaft (nor do most modern tractor PTO shafts, AFAIK).

So, I have a few choices:

1) Buy a new ORC with a hole for about $70

2) Buy a new yoke with a QD coupler for about $40.

3) Buy a whole new PTO shaft for $100-$300.

I'm leaning towards option 2. I found the manual for the tractor, and Woods offered a QD yoke listed as "1-3/8 Spline QD Yoke L14R" (nobody online lists this part. Gonna call a dealer, but I'm betting against it). I'm assuming the L14R is a universal joint series spec. But the closest thing I can find listed is a 14N. I haven't been able to find a site that explains these u-joint series numbers to me.

So the real question is, is "14N" compatible with "L14R"?

P.S. Before somebody mentions it, yes, I'm planning to install some sort of chain shielding front and rear before we use it. Gotta search the forums for the threads I've already seen on building 'em, because the Woods ones are $275 front and $295 rear, which would be nearly double what we paid for the mower!

I'm thinking 14N and 14R are different in that the snapring is inside the yoke ears on one and outside on the other. I know for sure that '12' series are that way. 14R should be available, or you could order the Woods part; if you can get it for $40, it will fit and the price isn't far out of line. Order the u-joint cross as well. There are several Woods dealers online including Messick's. They probably offer a generic 14R yoke as well. Drilling the ORC is an ooption, but if it isn't done absolutely correctly it won't work well, or at all.

 

[sandman2234]

A machine shop, especially a HOMESHOP would charge less than what the cutter is worth that it will take to cut a hardened piece of steel. However, if the edge of a file will cut into the steel, most likely it can be drilled. Hard is a relative term, and not always an impossibility. I can't see a lot of money being invested in good steel and the extra hardening processes to make something hard, when they really want it to wear out anyway. Planned that way most of the time.
HSS is probably not going to cut it, from harbor freight...
Carbide will most likely cut it, but requires extremely slow speeds and accurate feeds.
David from jax

 

[wwalkersd]

Thanks, all! I just discovered that one of our volunteers is a retired machinist who still has ties to his old shop. So he's going to drill the ORC for a pin, as well as cut the shaft to length.

And yes, there's definitely a slip clutch under that cover. I've got a photo, but I can't post it right now.

 

[captflx]

I sold the M5 Dixie cutter until about 18 years ago, and I didn't remember that it required a pin through the tractor shaft.
Does your tractor pto shaft have a groove around the circumference? Go to Woodsequipment.com and look up manuals for your model. You will see that although the yoke appears to have a hole in the side, it also has a spring loaded push pin that locks into the groove on the pto shaft. So you don't need to drill the pto yoke.

 

[wwalkersd]

I sold the M5 Dixie cutter until about 18 years ago, and I didn't remember that it required a pin through the tractor shaft.
Does your tractor pto shaft have a groove around the circumference? Go to Woodsequipment.com and look up manuals for your model. You will see that although the yoke appears to have a hole in the side, it also has a spring loaded push pin that locks into the groove on the pto shaft. So you don't need to drill the pto yoke.

Funny you should mention that. The shaft has obviously been bodged up at some point. It looks like it has a welded-solid small slip clutch at the tractor end. And the yoke on the tractor end only has a single hole in it, i.e., the hole doesn't go through both sides. No push pin, though. Maybe the single hole was for the push pin?

Oh, and I've solved my tech difficulties and can now show you a picture of the slip clutch that was under the shield:

Do you know any way to determine whether the clutch works, short of running the mower into a rock? Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the tractor end of the shaft.

P.S. Yes, the shaft with the slip clutch is partially removed from the gearbox shaft. We removed the bolt and we're working on removing the shaft.

 

[medicshawn]

I'm not sure if this helps or not. I bought a PTO shaft extension to get back the length that my quick hitch uses up. When removing it yesterday I noticed it had a hole drilled through the middle. The extension was only 20 dollars through Agri Supply. Similar to this. I'll keep looking to find the correct part.

118-2248 PTO EXT. 1-3/8 - Agri Supply

 

[wwalkersd]

OK, I just looked at the parts drawings in the manual, and the quick detach yoke definitely has the push-button offset from the centerline of the yoke. My yoke has a hole through the center, but only one side. Weird.

 

[wwalkersd]

I'm not sure if this helps or not. I bought a PTO shaft extension to get back the length that my quick hitch uses up. When removing it yesterday I noticed it had a hole drilled through the middle. The extension was only 20 dollars through Agri Supply. Similar to this. I'll keep looking to find the correct part.

118-2248 PTO EXT. 1-3/8 - Agri Supply

We need the Over-Running Clutch, which already adds plenty of length. So if I did this the shaft would end up really, really short, which would probably give bad u-joint angles. An ORC with a hole would be a better match.

 

[medicshawn]

Here's one where you can see the hole. I'm not sure where the hole is on yours or how big.

PTO ADAPTER 1-3/8 FEAMLE X 1-3/8 MALE - Agri Supply

PTO ADAPTER 1-3/8" FEMALE X 1-3/8" MALE

 

[medicshawn]

how about this
OVER RIDING CLUTCH - Agri Supply

 

[wwalkersd]

how about this
OVER RIDING CLUTCH - Agri Supply

Well, I need the 1-3/8x1-1/8 version, but it's the same price. $32.95 beats the $70 one I listed as my option 2. Thanks for the pointer!

However, as described above, it looks like a free drilled hole will be a better (or at least cheaper) option.

 

[sandman2234]

I would think that there is a procedure for exercising the slip clutch. I have never used one, so the right way is beyond me, but I do know somebody can probably chime in with the correct way. It is pretty much an established procedure to run them thru a check at least once a year, when you first start the mowing season.
If nobody else chimes in, then loosen the bolts holding the springs until it slips, then tighten them up a little at a time until you reach the NO SLIP ZONE.
(Hopefully somebody will chime in on that one, or do a search, you should find the right way posted)
David from Jax

 

[captflx]

To check the function of your slipclutch----loosen all springs on clutch. Using an ink marker or a piece of chalk, mark all parts of the clutch. Engage tractor pto, shut down and check marks. If any parts line up, those are frozen. Disassemble clutch, remove rust and/or replace friction disc. If nothing lines up, all parts are free. If the friction pads appear to be o.k.--- both are same thickness and about 1/8" to 3/16".
Refer to operator manual to reset the springs. Normally these springs are set according to their length from the clutch face to the flat underneath the nut. These really need to be close to meaurement in manual as a 1 1/2 revolution past the setting can lock down some clutches.