New 5010 Loader Hesitation Issue

[bobm6996]

I have a new Mahindra 5010 Cab HST that I just noticed an issue when moving dirt this week. The loader bucket hesitates or seems to just not move when trying to roll it. It does not appear to do it all the time, but most of the time it happens when I am dumping and rolling the bucket with a load in it. I thought I remembered seeing a post about this problem, but have not been able to find it. Trying to determine if this is unique to my tractor or an issue that maybe Mahindra is or may address in the future.

 

[bbbmgo]

Here is from my post on my 4010 Loader issues:

After a certain point in the dump cycle, the bucket free-falls and waves back and forth. After keeping the dump lever held for a approximately five more seconds, the bucket completes the dump cycle. My interpretation is that there is a weakness in the system. My interpretation is reenforced when I get stuck in the muck and can't push myself backward. The bucket is limp and has no power to push the tractor. The loader is made with the tractor, in Korea, so no-go getting in contact with someone there.

 

[Wook660]

I have issues with my bucket curl, but then again, I put a slight bend in both of the pistons trying to move a rock that was much too big. Now I have to replace the cylinders. It makes an awful noise when I curl the bucket in either direction. Hope this isn't the case with you.

 

[AchingBack]

I have issues with my bucket curl, but then again, I put a slight bend in both of the pistons trying to move a rock that was much too big. Now I have to replace the cylinders. It makes an awful noise when I curl the bucket in either direction. Hope this isn't the case with you.

What usually bends those rods is back blading with the loader when it is tilted more than 15 degrees in dump position and when downward pressure is being applied. Just how did you bend the pistons? Help prevent the rest of us from doing the same thing.

It may be possible to straighten those rods and rebuild the cylinders.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Here is from my post on my 4010 Loader issues:

After a certain point in the dump cycle, the bucket free-falls and waves back and forth. After keeping the dump lever held for a approximately five more seconds, the bucket completes the dump cycle. My interpretation is that there is a weakness in the system. My interpretation is reenforced when I get stuck in the muck and can't push myself backward. The bucket is limp and has no power to push the tractor. The loader is made with the tractor, in Korea, so no-go getting in contact with someone there.

Youre getting fluid voids in the cyls when dumping. Are you running at a reasonably hi rpm? That will alleviate voiding and should help response accordingly. It wont help the force available tho. The dump position presents a pretty large mechanical disadvantage. Much better in the middle of the curl range.
larry

 

[Wook660]

What usually bends those rods is back blading with the loader when it is tilted more than 15 degrees in dump position and when downward pressure is being applied. Just how did you bend the pistons? Help prevent the rest of us from doing the same thing.

It may be possible to straighten those rods and rebuild the cylinders.

Kind of what I was doing. I had my grapple on and I was pulling a large rock off a pile with the grapple tilted down. Won't do that again! Online, the cylinders from Mahindra are big money, I'm going to measure them and look into other options. Rebuilding them is certainly an option too.

 

[tjus77]

Does your loader have a fast and slow setting? I had the same problem (seemingly), turned out to be I was on the slow setting. It definitely has a different feel than a Kabota (on either setting), which is what I was used to. But it does lift more.

 

[J_J]

Read this and see if it makes any sense.

The 3 position valve and the 4 position valve, both have what is known as a regenerative circuit built into the bucket dump circuit.

When dumping a loaded bucket (with a good old fashioned loader control valve) the weight of the material in the bucket tends to pull the cylinders down faster than the hyd. Fluid can fill the other side of the bucket cylinders. Therefore, an air pocket will develop in the cylinder causing the bucket to be a little "floppy" unless held against relief for a few seconds at the end of the dump cycle. Which creates an extra step if you want to back-drag, etc.

To solve this problem we now add a regenerative (regen) circuit into the dump function of the loader control valve.

What is "regen"? The dump function of the loader control valve applies hyd. "power" to both sides of the bucket cylinders at the same time. But how the heck is that going to work? Won't the cylinder just lock up and not move? No, because on one side of the cylinder the rod itself takes up space, decreasing the volume of the cylinder, on the other side of the cylinder piston there is, no rod, creating more volume. PSI=pounds per square inch, the more volume the more square inches to apply pounds, get it? O.K. so the back side of the cylinder overcomes the front side of the cyl. due to more volume and at the same time does not allow an air pocket to develop because of the added resistance of "hyd. power" to the front side of the cyl. allowing the cylinder to "stay tight" for subsequent operations. And as an added bonus it tends to dump faster due to the higher amount of flow/pressure to perform this operation. (Hence the "fast dump" mode the salesmen love to tell you about) In actuality the "fast dump" mode is just derivative of the regen circuit

 

[oldpilgrim]

My 3016 actually has a fast dump position indicated on the sticker which shows the joystick positions.

 

[bobm6996]

I don't think I have a fast/slow, but will look for it.

@J_J - every time I read your posts I am envious of your vast knowledge of hydraulics. I wish I had a little bit of that and I would switch from using my rear remote with long hydraulic hoses to run my grapple.

I noticed a very slow leak this week on the right side steering arm cylinder, so going to have to take the tractor in to get that fixed. I plan to have them look at the bucket issue, but I have a feeling they won't have an answer for me because I think it is a flaw on the loader Mahindra may be ignoring.

 

[J_J]

I see no reason that you could not use a divider valve and use the curl circuit to operate the grapple.

Use those outlets on the back for something else.

It only requires the valve, some short hoses, and a place to mount the valve.

Then using a push button, you can select the grapple at any time by pressing the button.

Your hand stays on the joystick valve with a switch on top or side.

You could also do a 3rd function valve and have full use of the FEL.

Need help, just ask.

 

[bobm6996]

I assume the divider valve is the cheapest solution and probably a simpler DIY task for a person who does know much about hydraulics? I would like to know how I might go about doing it unless the cost for the Cadillac is not that much more. I would like to do away with the 12 foot hoses that I have bungied to the fel arms.

How does the curl work on the fel when the grapple is not connected?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[J_J]

The divider valve is a 6 hose valve, with two IN ports for in and out fluid to the two other ports.

One set or ports would connect to the curl cyl, and the remaining set of ports would connect to the grapple.

How it works is this.

If connected correctly, with no voltage , path 1 would be the curl cyl.

To use grapple, you flip the switch and apply 12v to the solenoid and the fluid switches to path 2.

You can get the basic divider valve for about $100

or

valve and wiring.

or valve, wiring, hoses.

The 3rd function valve is a solenoid valve that will control the grapple with no feathering, using 12v to activate the the grapple.

This 3rd function valve can be installed after the FEL valve. The FEL valve PB or hyd blk will feed this valve.

Valve is controlled by a 12v switch, either on or off.


How does the curl work on the fel when the grapple is not connected?

Just cap the grapple hoses and don't use the switch. Your valve will be in curl mode with no voltage applied.

 

[cebrowne]

I have the exact same issue on a 4010. The mechanical (dis)advantage is such that I guess I don't really care since I would never do anything but dump in that position. Nonetheless, I am certain that it is simply a little bit of trapped air in the cylinder and not a defect, per se. Hydraulic fluid is incompressible and unlike water oil will not flash in a vacuum.