Bird
Rest in Peace
Ron, as many people as there are using the Advanage plans, they must be good for some people, but I've never heard anyone say anything good about them.
Need thoughts on Health Insurance
- Thread starter Western
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Ron, as many people as there are using the Advanage plans, they must be good for some people, but I've never heard anyone say anything good about them.
drgill
Member
Insurance companies are the biggest cause of high healthcare costs in our country. Note that I don't specify for profit or not for profit (BCBS) because either way the money paid in by you or your employer funds individuals' profits (could be investors in the for-profit case or company executives in the non-profit case). To call this insurance is ludicrous. The payments made to insurance companies are enough to cover healthcare costs- sort of like installment payments. The insurance company takes on no risk, which is the definition of insurance- risk sharing.
I've worked in healthcare 33 years so I've seen the dirty insides of the way the system works. You'd get mighty PO'd if you saw the way insurance companies make collecting on claims so dang difficult for healthcare providers. I'm against ObamaCare, but for a national healthcare plan- one that specifies a single-payer system. Obamacare went out of its way to make sure insurance companies didn't get penalized. Why should we (individuals and companies making insurance payments) have to guarantee the profits of these companies? All they're doing is collecting the payments, trying to pay as little as possible for any claims and pocketing the leftover.
PH
I agree. Everyone having access to health care is wonderful goal but not if it bankrupts the country. There has to be a better way. I was thinking about primary care-like facilities where you could receive basic medical care at a reasonable price (subsidized by the government). For example, if your kid broke his leg you could take him there and have the bone set and a cast put on. Maybe it could be staffed by nurse practioners. There has to be some way of accomplishing this.
brin
Super Member
I think you are exactly right...County health departments could be used for this purpose and administered locally..not by the Feds...Hospitals could also have adjoining fast care centers with nurse practitioners that handled less serious needs thereby freeing up the ER's for serious emergencies...
Sigarms
Super Member
Although I don't particularly care for the current president, I do think he's getting a bad rap for his nickname when it comes to health coverage.
The fact is, the US is one of the few "modern industrialized" nations on the planet that doesn't have mandatory health coverage for it's citizens.
This was going on LONG before this guy got into office.
Have a buddy who is in medical sales, the margins are unthinkable in most industries I know. Drug companies? come on.
All I do know is that anyone of us, if we have some major medical issues, could bankrupt us in a heart beat. That's what's really scary.
Personally, health insurance is just like any other type of insurance in my eyes, legalized crime.
Perhaps due to the fact that I'm getting older, I happen to believe that everyone of us has a right to be covered for health care, and you shouldn't run the risk of losing your life's savings if you're hospitalized. For the record, I've had health insurance for the last 20 years or so and pay a pretty penny for it. Please don't think I'm looking for a handout, but it's to the point as I get older that the medical system in the US is for the most part a money making machine.
KennyG
Elite Member
I know these are common thoughts, but all drug companies are publicly traded corporations. All insurance companies are publicly traded companies or mutual companies (owned by policy holders). If they are making so much money, just invest in the companies and let the dividends pay for your health care costs.
That actually won't work because, as a sector, pharmiceuticals are losers - return less than the overall stock market. This is because the one company that has a current hot drug makes lots of money in a given year and rest lose because they can't recover their research costs. Insurance company investments are solid, but won't put you on easy street either.
The bottom line is that we have demanded a very high level of health care in this country (beyond what Europe has) and we are getting it through a relatively inefficient delivery system. Until that gets addressed, the cost will remain high. To some extent, I accept that because I think, as a country, we are wealthy enough to pay for more health care than other countries. High tech state of the art medical care will never be cheap and I'm OK with that as long as we do something about the efficiency and prioritization of the system.
Sigarms
Super Member
Buy a brand name drug and compare it's cost to an "off brand".
I almost fell over dead when I went off Lipatore (sp) when the doctor prescribed an off brand name and I saw the cost difference.
Our son had a consultation the other week with a doctor. For a 10 minute chat, the tab was $545, of which we had to pay $10. So, if we didn't have insurance, would the bill have been substantially less?
The fact is, if you're dying, you'll pay anything to live. I may be wrong, but that's the way I see it.
All that said, Wake Forest Hospital is a big employer locally. They're building "mini" hospitals all over the place. Kicker is, couple of years ago when I spending time in the burn unit, the hospital was severely understaffed. Can't figure out how they have the money to build more hospitals when they can't find enough people to work in the ones they already have.
Perhaps it's just me, but I can't help but think that the insurance companies and hospitals want to make sure you don't have a clear understanding of exactly what is going on.
I almost fell over dead when I went off Lipatore (sp) when the doctor prescribed an off brand name and I saw the cost difference.
Our son had a consultation the other week with a doctor. For a 10 minute chat, the tab was $545, of which we had to pay $10. So, if we didn't have insurance, would the bill have been substantially less?
The fact is, if you're dying, you'll pay anything to live. I may be wrong, but that's the way I see it.
All that said, Wake Forest Hospital is a big employer locally. They're building "mini" hospitals all over the place. Kicker is, couple of years ago when I spending time in the burn unit, the hospital was severely understaffed. Can't figure out how they have the money to build more hospitals when they can't find enough people to work in the ones they already have.
Perhaps it's just me, but I can't help but think that the insurance companies and hospitals want to make sure you don't have a clear understanding of exactly what is going on.
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Bird
Rest in Peace
I know some doctors have complained about Medicare and Medicaid not paying enough, and I know they usually submit a huge bill to Medicare, then Medicare approves a third or less of what was billed. I do wonder, if a person doesn't have insurance, will that person be stuck for the huge initial billing?
Now I don't know how much "profit" the doctors around here are actually making, but it really is incredible to me to see the number of hospitals and the huge luxurious facilities that doctors have built and are still building within 15 miles of our home.
I think in general the medical care situation in this country is a disgrace, but there's enough blame to go around; doctors, insurance companies, and us . . the patients or consumers.
You see, I'm so old I remember when we just paid the doctor; no insurance. Now a medical office usually consisted of one doctor, one receptionist, and one nurse. And when a patient didn't pay at the time, one of those people mailed a bill later . . to the patient, not an insurance company.
And then we got insurance, so when a patient asked a doctor what something would cost, the doctor's answer was to not worry about it, your insurance will pay for it, or pay most of it. How many of us are old enough to remember that? It's happened to me more than once. So, we didn't worry about it, the insurance will pay it. And the doctors quickly learned to charge more.
So we got a receipt, bill, or statement from the doctor, filled out a little form, and mailed it to our insurance company. At least our insurance would then mail us a check within 3 to 6 weeks (depending on which company my employer was using that year).
So insurance companies started "negotiating" fees with doctors, hospitals, and clinics, in an effort to improve their profits; not to do anything to improve health care. The rules got more complicated, all the medical care providers had to hire more help and do more paper work. So they had to charge more to cover that additional manpower expense. So it's now really convenient for the patient, no forms to fill out, no stamps to buy to mail a claim form, don't have to go to the bank to deposit the check received. But we pay dearly for that convenience in higher doctor and drug costs and higher insurance premiums.
Now that's my opinion; yours may vary.:laughing: So what can we do about it? I sure don't know.
KennyG
Elite Member
Good points Bird. I have BC/BS and the great advantage is their negotiated rates. I have a high deductable policy so, barring a crisis, I end up paying everything myself. However, when I get billed the cost is always reduced by 20% to 50% because of the BC/BS negotiated rates. I assume the poor guy with no insurance gets billed for the full amount.
Medical insurance really didn't exist until WW2 for most people. You didn't need it because the doctor could either fix you up for a small cost or you died. There weren't many options.
Medical insurance really didn't exist until WW2 for most people. You didn't need it because the doctor could either fix you up for a small cost or you died. There weren't many options.
This out to hack you guy's off a bit as it does me.
My wife is an ADON at a rehab/retirement center. She has seen where a patient needing and electric wheel chair has 2 options as far as the wheel chair co. are concerned. 1st is patient as payer and the range is $1000-$7000. If the patent can use Medicaid, the same Chair company will charge Medicaid up to $20,000 + for the same da%# chair.
Have you seen the stores selling those high end "wheel chairs" and claim they will get you approved through medicaid??? Who get's ripped off in that deal???
I think, though necessary, Medicaid and Medicare are full to the brim with fraud. If it isn't fraud it should be, the cost should be the same for the patient and the taxpayers.
My wife is an ADON at a rehab/retirement center. She has seen where a patient needing and electric wheel chair has 2 options as far as the wheel chair co. are concerned. 1st is patient as payer and the range is $1000-$7000. If the patent can use Medicaid, the same Chair company will charge Medicaid up to $20,000 + for the same da%# chair.
Have you seen the stores selling those high end "wheel chairs" and claim they will get you approved through medicaid??? Who get's ripped off in that deal???
I think, though necessary, Medicaid and Medicare are full to the brim with fraud. If it isn't fraud it should be, the cost should be the same for the patient and the taxpayers.
300UGUY
Super Member
My doctor gave up her solo practice because she had to employ a full time person just to collect from the insurance companies. And they frequntly took a year or more to pay. She joined a group practice.