Need barn vapor barrier and heating advice.

[sixdogs]

I am going to insulate my Morton 42 X 60 bldg and am going to hire some Amish to do it. R-19 fiberglass batts in the walls and blown-in R-30 glass in the ceiling. Covered with interior metal--29 ga.
Question is, do I want a vapor barrier on the walls and ceiling? I figure I do but am not sure.

Also, I wonder how to heat it for the occasional two months in late winter. I could use a wood stove and have it hooked up through the ceiling at the same time or I could use propane? Any ideas on the heat aspect of this or what type of heater to use? .

 

[srs]

I am going to insulate my Morton 42 X 60 bldg and am going to hire some Amish to do it. R-19 fiberglass batts in the walls and blown-in R-30 glass in the ceiling. Covered with interior metal--29 ga.
Question is, do I want a vapor barrier on the walls and ceiling? I figure I do but am not sure.

Also, I wonder how to heat it for the occasional two months in late winter. I could use a wood stove and have it hooked up through the ceiling at the same time or I could use propane? Any ideas on the heat aspect of this or what type of heater to use? .

Sixdogs, when I insulated the walls on my 30" X 45" Morton I purchased the the insulation directly through my Morton sales person. It fits very tight between the posts. The sales rep gave me copies of the installation pages from their manual and I installed it according to their specs. Just to let you know the stuff is very heavy. After I installed the insulation I placed 6 mil plastic over the insulation, again according to their specs. They recommend no holes in the plastic so I was very careful when I installed the plastic vapor barrier to seal up any holes. Once the plastic was installed I then put OSB sheets on to cover up the insulation and plastic. Right now I just have some of the plastic up on the ceiling, I'll then install sheets of interior metal overtop the plastic. Eventually I'll get blown in insulation to finish the ceiling. Can't help you with the heat question, not there yet. If you need further info don't hesitate to ask.

 

[CurlyDave]

One of the things which seems very convenient is one of the ventless propane heaters.

The big problem is that one of the combustion products of propane, or natural gas, is water vapor.

I do not want to increase the humidity inside my shop and cause everything in there to rust.

 

[sixdogs]

srs--That's what I am doing, exactly as Morton does, just using other people to install. They do superb workmanship. Are you using vapor barriers on both walls and ceiling?

CurlyDave--I thought about that too. I get lots of humidity duing temperature changes anyway so maybe that's not a concern?
I am tempted to go with the woodstove but I hate to cut a hole in my roof to install. While I am very familiar with wood--and in log form is basically "free" around here because so few use it, I am 60 now and not getting any younger.
What is your plan "B" for heat?

 

[srs]

srs--That's what I am doing, exactly as Morton does, just using other people to install. They do superb workmanship. Are you using vapor barriers on both walls and ceiling?

The plastic acts as a vapor barrier and I am most definitely using it in the walls and ceiling. Eventually when the building is heated it should stay nice and toasty and not cost an arm and leg to keep it warm inside. Just curious what type of dogs do you have?

 

[CurlyDave]

I thought about that too. I get lots of humidity duing temperature changes anyway so maybe that's not a concern?

To me, lots of humidity already makes it even more of a concern. Add to what you have and it gets worse.

What is your plan "B" for heat?

I cheated. I built a very large attached garage on the house. 10' high doors, 14' ceiling, one bay 40' long (although it has the water tank, and softener in the end, so it is more like 30-35 clear feet) It isn't heated, but the water heater and the air handler for the heat pump are in it. The air handler keeps it warm in winter and cool in summer. Being attached makes it easy to access in bad weather. Whatever I am going to work on gets parked in there. The other side is only 20' deep but another 15' wide.

The rest of the stuff only needs to be out of the weather, not heated. My storage building (which I haven't built yet) can be completely unheated. Turbine vents near the peak hold keep it bearable in summer, and if I block them in winter, just being in a building will temper some of the lowest temperatures.

Depending on your needs, you might think about sectioning off a shop portion of your building and only heating that section. More work now, but the amount of heat needed can be a lot less.

Maybe you only really need to insulate the shop portion. The rest of it is just indoor storage.

A wood/metal/repair shop on the side of a vehicle bay that is 30' x 15' is all I need heated.

 

[bigtiller]

If you put a moisture barrier in the ceiling, how will the moisture get out? That is what the contractor asked me when we built our house. There is no barrier in the garage ceiling either and we have no moisture problems.

I did that in my Morton building and the windows and doors would frost over in the winter. Quite often I had to pound on the overhead doors with my fist to break the ice in the hinge joints to get the door open. The metal service door was often frozen shut and I had to put my shoulder into it to get it open.

 

[jdmar]

COnsider closed cell foam sprayed under the metal roof (not ceiling). This runs about $1.00 to $1.25 square foot for 1 inch. That gives only about R-6 to 7 but will stop sweating from the underside of your roof. For insulation still put the blown stuff in the ceiling but the foam will really make it tight, quiet and stop the sweating. That sweat can ruin everything under it including blown insulation. When my roof went up it would always sweat on the west side only since it stayed cooler on that side because of less sun! I had my own little storm system in just half the barn...cool in a wierd science kinda way!

I know it costs more, but if able give it a try. With the current economy you might be able to find it a little cheaper even than the above price. I am sorry but I am not smart enough to clearly say about the vapor barrier location (note that the closed cell foam is its own vapor barrier). The vapor barrier elswhere will depend on your climate as well as the tightness of the building and the materials...way too many factors for me!

Good luck and let us know what you do and how it works. I love learning new stuff.
Peter

 

[Luremaker]

If you put a moisture barrier in the ceiling, how will the moisture get out? That is what the contractor asked me when we built our house. There is no barrier in the garage ceiling either and we have no moisture problems.

I did that in my Morton building and the windows and doors would frost over in the winter. Quite often I had to pound on the overhead doors with my fist to break the ice in the hinge joints to get the door open. The metal service door was often frozen shut and I had to put my shoulder into it to get it open.

I have a 40 x 60 x 14 metal clad shop which I heat all winter. Walls are insulated to R21 ceilings to R50 and I have a 6mil vapor barrier. Code here says we must have a vapor barrier. This year I am heating with a pellet/corn stove. I do not have a problem with moisture but if I did I would install an air exchanger. I bet, if you do not install a vapor barrier your insulation would eventually get wet and and wet insulation won't insulate.

 

[sixdogs]

The plastic acts as a vapor barrier and I am most definitely using it in the walls and ceiling. Eventually when the building is heated it should stay nice and toasty and not cost an arm and leg to keep it warm inside. Just curious what type of dogs do you have?[/QUOTE]


Springer Spaniels. Cute as a button and lots of fun. Two can hunt --birds--so they sort-of earn some of their keep.