My New Z-Force 48

   / My New Z-Force 48
  • Thread Starter
#21  
In doing a little more internet surfing, I saw where Dixon uses the IZT drive in one of their models and indicate that it is for commercial use.

Have a great day,
Doc
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #22  
sems like a good tractor but there are better
 
   / My New Z-Force 48
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Yes, no matter what you own, there is always something better. The problem is that I don't have an unlimited budget.

If someone would like to donate to the "Doc's Mower Upgrade Fund" maybe I can get something better.

Have a great day,
Doc
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #24  
MBDiagMan... I here ya! I look at some of these people of this site that own 4 or 5 tractors??? I'm happy to own one modestly priced tractor! Ohh well... I guess if I could afford it... I'd have a ZTR, LT, GT, Sub-CUT, CUT, and a utility tractor. And I'm sure I could find a way to justify all those for my 1 1/2 acre!! Good luck with your Cub!
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #25  
MBDiagMan,

It is actually an 18hp 44"(ZT18440kh) and for 2004 was 3899. and for 2005 will be 3999. These are suggested prices set by Snapper.

It does have grease fittings, they are greasable from the bottom and it has pump up tires all the way around. You must have over looked these items. It does have a stamped deck(just like the cub) and has grease fittings everywhere they are needed, which includes all pivot points.

Talking about bearings, I would doubt the Cub has timken bearings. They use this term only when talking about the 2000, and 3000 series tractors. When talking about the 1000 series tractors and the consumer z's they forget to mention that detail. I would "almost" promise you they are china made and can "99%"promise you the snapper is a USA made ball bearing. I could be wrong of course.

The transmissions I have seen plenty problems with are the IZT transmissions. I am afraid to have a unit with the EZT's.

I would go back and look at that www.hydro-gear.com site and look a little closer. You are right about the difference b/n the IZT and the EZT, but look at how the transmissions are ranked from top to bottom. With the EZT not being as good as the IZT. The one at the top, hyrdaulic wheel motors, is the one snapper is using. (HGM-12P 12 cu. in. wheel motor) Which is far superior to the others.

All commercial mowers use the type of system that snapper uses in its homeowner mowers. They just use heavier versions because the units are heavier and take more of a beating. No commercial company(dixon included as you stated in a later post) should consider the IZT commercial grade. Exmark, toro, scag, hustler and the big ones don't either.

Thanks for all the feedback it makes it more fun and have a great day.
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #26  
MB,
I bought a Dixon Ram 44 in Sept and couldn't be more pleased !
I had looked at a bunch of ZTR's before buying. Snapper included. Snapper looks like a good one but after close review of the deck and other "hardware" the Dixon seemed to suit me better. I believe my Ram has the IZT hydro system.
Good Luck .
GrayBeard
 
   / My New Z-Force 48
  • Thread Starter
#27  
ihcubs,

Thanks for correcting me on the Snapper. Yes, I must have been looking at a different model.

Now let me correct you about the Z-Force. I think you are mixing up the Z-Force with the RZT. The RZT does not have Timken bearing spindles, but the Z-Force certainly does. The Z-Force is billed as a residential mower, but comparing it to the less expensive RZT is like comparing a Pinto to a Lincoln. Both made by the same mfg. but built in a totally different way. Everything you've said about the CC's sounds like you're talking about the RZT. Part of our misunderstanding may very well be that I don't know details about the Snapper line and you don't know details about the CC line.

The RZT, probably built in China as you suggest, has the less expensive, less rugged EZT drive. The Z-Force has the IZT drive.

The Z-Force has a floating deck, again with TIMKEN bearing spindles, is stamped but apparently rugged. At least as rugged as my 13 year old CC 2145 deck that has proven itself, also with TIMKEN bearing spindles.

Most of the time, failure claims are anecdotal rather than analytical. Someone hears of someone, who knows someone, who said that their XYZ brand machine had a failure.

It is very difficult to get scientifically gathered analytical information because the manufacturers are not anxious to publish failure statistics. I am quite sure that individual pumps and motors have experienced failures as well, but we don't have statistical information on them to come to a scientific conclusion.

Without such statistical information niether one of us can know how well these machines will hold up until a number of seasons have passed. My CC2145 has 13 seasons behind it, so I know what it is "made of" and what to expect from it. After a number of seasons with the Z-Force I will then have a better idea what to expect from it. Until those seasons pass NIETHER of us know how well ANY machine will hold up. We can look at things such as spindle construction and such to make judgement, but we can't know for sure.

BTW, the Snapper has 18HP, 44" cut, while the CC z-Force for the same price, has 22HP, 48" cut.



Graybeard,

Yes your Dixon RAM has an IZT system, and on the Dixon-ZTR website it says "proffesional use" in the write up for this mower. We have a very good Dixon dealer in this area and the 48" RAM was one that I was considering. It is a VERY good unit. In comparing it to the CC that I bought and the Snapper that I looked at, the only reasons I went with the CC over the Dixon is my 13 year experience with my current CC, the ease of removing the deck from the CC. and I bought the CC for $400 less with zero percent interest. When I get a chance for zero percent interest I leave my money in mutual funds and use theirs. The zero percent interest was the final decision maker between the Dixon and the CC.

The Dixon was clearly my number two choice, a Gravely number three choice and the Snapper number four choice.

I feel quite certain the Dixon will serve you well. Enjoy.

Have a great day,
Doc
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #28  
I bought a RZT22 for my mother last spring and after one summer of moderate use I am well pleased. I purchased it because I felt like it was the most bang for the buck. I looked at the Z-force and they are very nice mowers, but in my situation I felt that the RZT would serve well for my mothers 1.5 acres. On the other hand, I have a Dixie Chopper for my own yard which is 3.5 acres and a little more abusive to the machinery. In a perfect world I could have bought her a Dixie Chopper quality mower for the C.C. RZT price.
My point is, let's remember that everyone's needs and budget are different and the RZT, Z-force, Snapper, etc. help give us plenty of choices.
 
   / My New Z-Force 48
  • Thread Starter
#29  
Well, I learned something very interesting on another forum. A tech responded with his experiences with the IZT drive.

He said that he had indeed seen them fail, but that it was almost always due to water in the unit. The water gets in through the vent because of vigorous use of a pressure washer.

I will now seal the vents for winter storage and come up with a way to seal them when washing the mower.

Regardless of hydro unit type, watch closely what you're doing when cleaning with a pressure washer.

Have a great day,
Doc
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #31  
I need help! I have the z-force 48 and have 30+ hours now. I have no complaints except I am having a very difficult time in trying to find a bagger system for this mower. Cub doesn't offer anything for the 48", and the only thing I've found on aftermarket, is only listed as being built for the "Tank" models. Have any of you found a good solution for this?? The lack of a grass catcher is killing me! Thanks for your input.
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #32  
Sorry to post the bad news but there is no bagger available for the 48" Z-Force to my knowledge. The Tank bagger will not fit. The 48" Z-Force will not be produced in 2005 (be replaced by a 50" model) so you might not ever see a bagger for your unit! Contact your dealer and see if they can possible help you out any further.
 
   / My New Z-Force 48
  • Thread Starter
#33  
The interesting thing here is the fact that on the brochure, a picture of a bagger on a Z-Force is very hard to miss. I'm sure that Gamble knows his product line, so I suppose that the bagger is on a 44" unit for the picture.

I only use a bagger in the fall and occasionally for pine needles. I have a bagger for my old 2145, so I have no need.

Could you rig an offset hitch so that you could drag a sweeper behind and to the right of the mower? This would be sort of like running a hay baler, but it might get the job done.

Good luck,
Doc
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #34  
Thats correct, the 44" does come with a bagger option (main reason I sell these instead of the 48").
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #35  
I was afraid of that. Here's my situation. When I purchased the mower, I was told by the dealer that the bagger was optional. After the purchase I found that this was not true. They have not offered any assistance to speak of. So...here's two questions....(1) Do you think Cub would work with me, to put pressure on this dealer to refund, or do something to offset the fact that I was told the incorrect info?, and if so....where could I go at Cub to get in contact with someone? (2) I am also considering a pull behind lawn vac system (clyclone rake), but don't know if this will be more of a hassle than what it's worth.
Again, I love the mower, but the ability to vacuum was very important, especially when spending 4k! Thanks for your reply's.
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #36  
Each situation is different, so here is my advice...

If your dealer really said that there was a bagger available then he didn't know his product...and/or he was just trying to make the sale. HOWEVER, we are all human and we often time forget things or overlook them...I have been guilty of this before.

I would approach your dealer as positively as possible and just see if they offer to do anything. If you are recieved negatively then thats when you should approach Cub.

I'm not sure what your dealer can do...not sure what I would do...but there has to be some middle ground that suits both interest.
 
   / My New Z-Force 48
  • Thread Starter
#37  
I've seen enough of gamble's posts now to feel confident that he is a VERY customer oriented tractor dealer. Let's say that you are lucky enough to be dealing with the same kind of dealer in your area.

If that is the case and you have put all 30 of these hours on your 48" before learning that no mower attachment is available, then if you are willing to give up the 4" of cut width and the few horsepower that go along with it, the difference in the price of the 44 and 48 is about the same difference as the bagger attachment I would think.

If you approach him, as gamble recommends, in a positive, friendly and professional way, and if he still has an '04 Z-Force 44", maybe you can pay him a little for the hours use that you've gotten from your 48" to make the trade.

If you approach him with respect and no anger, you will have your best chance to work it out. By all means don't imply that he intentionally told you a lie. Indicate that you are sure that it was an honest mistake. You can always catch more fly's with honey than with vinegar.

There is no way to know until you talk to the man. If he is a customer oriented business man, like gamble, that realizes the value of happy customers, I'm quite sure you can work this out to your satisfaction.

It won't cost anything but a little gas and time to go find out. Do it in person, not over the phone. Clean your unit up and make it look as much like new as you can and take it with you when you talk to him.

Good luck,
Doc
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #38  
MBDiagman & Gamble77 - - Thank you both for your replys. Your advice is pretty much on target with my actions so far. I will continue to try and work with the owner of the store. Wish me luck! Thanks again.
 
   / My New Z-Force 48 #39  
Greetings Folks,

I'm new here and also a new owner of a Z-Force 50.

I compared the Z-Force with many other brands and in nearly all areas the Z-Force came out on top. It's clearly just built better. The Snapper model I looked at had the Hydro drives mounted up toward the seat and had long tubes going from the engine to the hydro drives with heat shielding on them, bad design in my book. The stamped frame on the snapper, especially the footing area bent when I stepped on and off the machine as did the Toro's I looked at. Both the Toro and Snapper's had single cylinder engines . . . bahhh. The Z-Force even though a tad more expensive seems worth it when you look at the components used.

Welded Frames
2 Cylinders 2005 Kohler engines
Grease Zerks everywhere
Wide Tires
Very Comfortable seating
Ease of maintance . . . all are found in the Cub's

BTW Does anyone new where the Zerks are for the 4 Deck Pivot points . . . I can not find them for the life of me, but the manual states they are there ?

The only thing I have noticed on my new Z-force is that grease zerks were not screwed in all the way on many of the areas . . . easy fix. I also noticed my needed some oil as it was at the add line after just 1.2 hours of use. ALSO make sure you deflate the rear tires to 8-10PSI and the fronts to 20-25PSI . . . my rear tires were at 35-40 psi and my fronts at 30psi . . . after doing this the ride was much smoother. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

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