Motor Scooters

[RichZ]

With the price of gas at $4.20/gallon, here in upstate New York, I've been thinkling of getting a motor scooter for my 46 mile round trip commute to work ( at least for the warm weather). Being farmers, my wife and I have 2 full size pick ups and a full size cargo van. Our best mileage is our GMC cargo van which gets about 20 mpg on the highway. So the economy of a motor scooter appeals to me.

I had a close call on my friend's Harley back when I was 19, and haven't been on a motorcycle since, but somehow a motor scooter seems wimpy enough not to scare me. Does anyone know anything about motor scooters? What are good, but cheap brands. Does anyone know if you need a motorcycle license to ride a motor scooter in New York State?

Thanks for any info!!!

 

[jdbower]

It's gotta be a pink Vespa if you need a scooter.

I would probably look more seriously at a motorcycle. Scooters are fine for city driving, with a 50 mile commute I'm guessing you've got some highway there. Motorcycles tend to have larger wheels which increases the angular momentum - the principle that keeps you upright. Personally I'd hate to be going at highway speeds and hit a bump in something with only two of those tiny wheels, but I've never driven one myself so I don't know if it's really an issue.

If you want better mileage but don't want a motorcycle you can look into a small car. My wife's Prius isn't that much worse mileage-wise than a Harley, she gets almost exactly 50mpg. It'll run you a little more in the beginning, but you can use it all four seasons (well, as long as the roads are plowed) and I'm guessing insurance is better.

 

[RobS]

I went through the same though process Rich and ended up with a small, fuel efficient car instead. My logic was that I'd want something I could use regardless of the weather, with two exceptions. On nice days (and some not-so-nice) I ride my bicycle to work and on the worst of the winter days I still have my 4X4 truck. I went from 11 to 31 mpg and have been smiling ever since. Best part is, I smile even when it's raining.

The scooter is certainly an attractive option but don't forget about the weather!

 

[RonMar]

I had a head resurfaced at a machine shop last week and was chatting with the owner while he did the work. He says he has been overhauling/repairing a metro a week, as people have been resurecting broke ones in droves due to gas prices and their nearly 50MPG highway mileage...

 

[Wombat125]

I would probably look more seriously at a motorcycle. Scooters are fine for city driving, with a 50 mile commute I'm guessing you've got some highway there. Motorcycles tend to have larger wheels which increases the angular momentum - the principle that keeps you upright. Personally I'd hate to be going at highway speeds and hit a bump in something with only two of those tiny wheels, but I've never driven one myself so I don't know if it's really an issue.

I'm with jd on this one. Little bitty tires translate into really quick steering. Driving 23 miles each way will take 30-40 minutes at scooterspeed. You'll really have to be on the ball during the whole time lest you hit any little anomoly in the road. Plus you probably won't have any surplus power to evade traffic "situations".

If you're set on two wheels, I would look for something with a little more mass and a lot larger wheels. Unless you're riding in a heavy urban area, it should be a lot more comfortable and safer.

If I were me, I would look for a used dual sport bike like Honda XL, Yamaha XT, or Suzuki DR. They will get great fuel economy and are way too fun to ride.

 

[chili]

I have a big scooter which is a Suzuki Bergman 650. It is automatic and is fun to ride. It has plenty of power and will take you over 100 mph if needed. It gets about 45-50 mpg. Suzuki also has Bergman 400 that gets about 60-65 mpg and plenty fast to keep up highway speeds. Honda has a 600 Silverwing and Yamaha has a Majesty 400. The smaller scooters are good on gas but only get to about 35 mph which would be ok for town driving. I live in Arkansas and required to have a motorcycle licence. Not sure about your area.

 

[ragkar]

I've had both a scooter and 700cc Honda shadow for about eighteen years. I ride the scooter much more often because of its convenience.
It's true that the smaller the engine, the better the gas mileage. But with a small engine you get lower top speeds. Even if the roads that you travel have a speed limit of 45mph, there are times when you have to accelerate to 60mph. There are also hills that have to be climbed.
A 50cc moped won't do more than 35mph. A 150 cc might do about 55-60mph(60-80mpg). I'm running a 250cc Honda Elite (1989) with 15,000 miles on it and I get 70mph and 70mpg. That's an honest level road, no wind figure and day in and out gas mileages. My Honda 700cc shadow gets 49mpg.
At 250 pounds and auto xmission my scooter is very convenient as a fair weather machine. Come winter with snow and ice on the roads, you won't see scooters or motorcycles.
I have to disagree vigorously with Chili's big scooter. In my opinion it has all the disadvantages of a full motorcycle (size and weight) and the disadvantages of a scooter (small wheels). The salesman won't tell you, but you can expect only 4-6 thousand miles on the rear tire of a scooter and 8-10 thousand on the front tire. That's because of the small circumference of the tire.
On my previous machine, also a 250cc Honda scooter, I got 43 thousand miles before a major xmission failure made me junk it.
In Pennsylvania, a scooter is considered a motorcycle and the driver must take a test and get an endorsement on his license. However there is a a no-test learners permit available for one year duration. In this state you need an annual inspection, insurance and must wear eye protection. Helmets are not required for motorcycles.
I've had my scooter on the interstate lots of times but it's a bit hairy due to the light weight and passing heavy trucks. I'd much rather use my heavier motorcycle then.
I was at my Honda dealer today and they are completely sold out of scooters with people waiting in lline.
As far as the brand, you have to approach it like an auto purchase. Who will repair it? Where do you get parts or tires? My suggestion is to browse the usenet group alt.scooter for comments from users. If you don't have a usenet reader, you can go to google groups for info.
I have to disagree with the guys bad mouthing tiny wheel performance. I have no problems with it at all. Frankly it's a bit more difficult transitioning from a scooter to a motorcycle than from a motorcycle to a scooter. Because of its low center of gravity, a scooter is a lot easier to learn than a bicycle. But you do have to watch out for the deeper and bigger pot holes with your smaller wheels.
I still get laughs from the cage (auto) drivers when I park my scooter. But they stop laughing when I say "70 miles per gallon".

 

[jinman]

I love Vespas, but not on slick roads. A small rainstorm producing slick streets is suicide. My brother had a Vespa when I was about 18. I borrowed it one day and it started raining lightly. I was all over the road trying to control those small tires. I would only consider riding a scooter anymore in guaranteed dry weather.

 

[MikePA]

At least with the two Suzuki Bergman 650s, they have motorcycle class engines and decent sized tires 15" (F) and 14" (R). Only 1" less than some of Suzuki's Touring bikes. So, not all scooters have tiny wheels.

 

[ragkar]

The bergman is a motorcycle in all but frame configuration. Instead of straddling the gas tank, you have a gap. It's sort of like the difference between boys and girls bike. But you have none of the scooter advantages of light weight and fuel economy. The Bergman weighs 524 pounds and will get 45-50 mpg.
As far as newly rained on slick roads, they're a hazard to motorcycles and autos too. The theory is that the first rain brings the road oils to the surface.

 

[RichZ]

Thanks guys, you talked me out of this idea, and that's a good thing. As I said, I had a close call on my buddy's Harley 35 years ago. I was on the New York State Thruway, passing a slow moving tractor trailer on the Harley, with my buddy behind me in his pickup truck. Just as I was reaching the tractor trailer, it hit a bunch of pretty big rocks in the road, and they shot sideways right at me. I avoided most of them, but I couldn't avoid one, and I went right over it. I almost lost control, but managed to wrestle the bike onto the center median. A state trooper happened to see the whole thing, and he pulled over to see if I was OK, as did my friend. They both told me that I did some great riding keeping the bike in control, and that I should just go on like nothing happened. But I saw my life flash in front of my eyes, and I was more scared of getting maimed than getting killed, so I vowed never to get back on a motorcycle again, and I haven't, even as a passenger. I thought that a scooter might be more stable, but now I know they aren't so I want no part of them either!!

I guess I'll be in the market for a very used good mileage economy car. as I don't have much to spend. I have a friend who's a mechanic, and he's already offered to help me find one. Any suggestions for something cheap and reliable?

Thanks!!!

 

[MikePA]

One of the instructors at the Motorcycle Riders Safety course I took several years ago never rode his bike to the classes. I asked why. He said he (1) Got married and (2) Had kids and the risk was too great.

I work with a guy who owns a Suzuki Bergman 650 that he uses to commute over 60 miles round trip to work. He also said he and his wife rode from central PA to Ocean City, NJ which meant traveling the beltways. While the Suzuki could more than keep up, it was not a pleasant experience. Although I'm not sure being on a motorcycle would have been better.

 

[dmccarty]

Its funny this subject popped up on TBN. My small county newspaper just had an story about people buying these things to save money on gas.

In NC you don't need a license for the smaller mopeds/scooters so when you see one its almost certainly someone who just got a DWI. But many people are riding them recently due to gas prices. I have noticed more of these things on the road.

I don't care if it gets 1,000,000 mpg. You won't see me riding those death machines. Its bad enough driving a 7,500 pound "cage" as protection against the crazy drivers. My fanny ain't going to be on a small little uncaged target.

Later,
Dan

 

[Dozernut]

I like bikes, always have and always will. I have a 125cc scooter that is a hoot. This scooter will easily keep up with traffic, it will run 70mph on flatland. The 90 mpg is a plus and the scooter beats most motorcycles when it comes to carrying cargo. It has a big under seat storage area that will hold a 3/4 helmet plus other items. I have a top case and a front basket and can easily haul a case of beverages and other items. For a fun errand runner it can't be beat, but for cruising I will take a bigger bike.

As far as safety is concerned they are a little more dangerous in some respects than a truck or auto but a lot depends on the operator. You can't chat up on a cell phone, you must pay attention to the road for hazards, oil spills, potholes, rocks-sand and watch for idiot cage drivers.

There is a learning curve and I would suggest a certified motorcycle safety course which will also reduce your insurance costs. My insurance for the scooter runs about $200 a year. Wear a helmet, gloves, boots and jeans and if the weather is not too hot, a vented, armored jacket. This will minimize the road rash if you do lay one down. I used to motto cross back in my younger stupid years and have laid down or crashed a bike just about every way you can, over the handlebars is one of my least favorites.

No facts to back it up but I believe more people have been killed or injured riding horses (Look at Christopher Reeves). Other things more dangerous than bikes: crab fishing, women, drinking alcohol, farming, guns, fireworks, logging and the list could go on and on. Other than crab fishing, I have done all of the listed items. I knew they were dangerous but that was irrelevant.

Talk to people who have bikes and experience then make a decision if a bike is for you or not. You must respect a bike but if you are in fear of one leave them alone for then they will truly hurt you.

 

[Bird]

Dan, our local news media has run stories recently about the increasing number of motorcycle and motor scooter riders, dealers who are selling them faster than they can get them, and the increasing number of accidents and riders who don't really know how to ride.

I've owned motorcycles of 305cc, 400cc, 650cc, 800cc, and 1200cc engines and when my youngest daughter was 15, I bought her a 50cc scooter, which of course, I rode occasionally. I've also riden a friend's 125cc scooter, and quite a number of other motorcycles. All of those machines handled fairly well. But a couple of years ago, my daughter bought a Chinese made 125cc scooter on the Internet. My teenaged grandson took a riding course and got his motorcycle license and could even ride that scooter at 65 mph on the Interstate. Now it was a really nice looking scooter, but I just rode it around the block once and it was the worst handling 2-wheeler I ever got on. So if anyone is in the market for one, be sure you test drive it before buying. And my daughter has already sold that contraption she had.

 

[tallyho8]

No facts to back it up but I believe more people have been killed or injured riding horses.

In the US there are about 4000 motorcycle fatalities a year and about 50 horse riding fatalities. I do not know the figures on injuries but a person is 20 times more likely to get injured on a horse than a motorcycle. I believe that this is because more motorcycle riders are killed instead of being just injured and also because more kids are injured riding horses when they are too young to ride motorcycles.

Research has shown that while motorcyclists average 7,000 hours of riding time per serious accident, horseback riders may expect a serious accident for around every 350 hours of riding.