Modifying an old loader; I need some help from a JD440 loader owner.

[Pete O]

I'm hoping someone who owns a John Deere 440 loader would be willing to take a few measurements and perhaps a few photos for me. I'm about to commence a rebuild of the old front-end loader on my Ford 4100 (see this thread for the tractor refurbishment https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/parts-repairs/386813-general-freshen-up-1967-ford.html ) and part of the loader rebuild will be to add a quick-attach setup; I've chosen to use the JD system as I bought a 'new old stock' J D bucket (serial # BW14145) from a dealer who had closed down so I will make the quick-attachment system to suit that bucket plus other implements- a grapple will be desirable in the future and I'll probably buy rather than build one.


One of the first things I'll need to know are the dimensions of the tilt cylinders on the 440 loader as I need to convert my loader from the old-fashioned centre-mounted single tilt cylinder. If someone could measure their cylinder and let me know the bore & stroke plus the thickness and pin sizes of the mounting lugs on both ends I'd be very grateful.

Another thing I'll need is the dimensions of the attachment linkage that mounts on the front end of each arm; specifically, the distance from the pivot point at the front of the loader arm to where the cylinder attaches.

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[ptsg]

Can you match the lift cylinders? Most loaders use the piston diameter on the lift and tilt. Length-wise is not that hard to figure out either.

All the 440 loader I saw on Google had 2 tilt cylinders and not a single mid mounted cylinder.

 

[Pete O]

I was probably not very clear about what I am doing; my existing loader is not John Deere 440 but I plan to modify it so that the business end of the loader is similar to the 440 so it will take attachments made for that system. The existing loader is an old one made for the Ford 4100 probably in the early 1970s, it uses a single central tilt cylinder like the one in this picture Used Massey Ferguson 135 Tractor Loader | AgDealer (had trouble even finding a picture of one!) but I plan to get rid of that and install two tilt cylinders on the arms like the more modern loaders.

Thanks for the tip on using the same as the lift cylinders, it had not occurred to me. I can mock it up with those and see how the geometry works.

 

[aczlan]

Lift cylinders will be too long, usually the bucket cylinders are about the same diameter, but shorter. Sometimes the bucket cylinders have a 1/2” smaller bore than the lift cylinders.
To mockup, get two sticks of PVC pipe that just slide inside each other (1.5" and 2"?), notch the ends, drill them for pins and mock up to your hearts content.
Length will depend on the difference in height between where the loader arms and the bucket cylinders attach to the back of the bucket or the quick attach.

Aaron Z

 

[Pete O]

Thanks again for the tips re the cylinders. Still hoping someone might chime in with dimensions from a loader hitch for me, or be prepared to take a few photos with a tape measure alongside to give me an idea of relative positions for the cylinder attachment point on the hitch.

 

[Zebrafive]

About all I can help with is the pins are 25mm diameter at both ends of the bucket cylinders.

 

[Pete O]

Thanks for that info Zebrafive.

 

[Deleted member 216442]

Thanks for that info Zebrafive.

I have a jd 440 loader and bucket and other attachable devices and can probably provide most measurements and pics of what you need, however I am not going to disassemble cylinders to get bore diameters. It'd be best for me if you could sketch a diagram showing what measurements you need. I've made devices that attach to the JD quick attach system on it, and I can speak of a weak point or two on some JD devices. If I remember correctly, I had to add brace plates to the top hooks on the bucket or forks attachment to keep them from bending. I have what is probably the same bucket as the one you bought.

 

[Pete O]

Hi metalworkshed - with that username you sound like a man after my own heart. Thanks very much for your offer. No way would I ask anyone to disassemble their equipment to provide me with measurements; as for hydraulic cylinders the outside diameter would be plenty near enough to estimate bore size for my purposes.
I drove to the JD dealer nearest to me yesterday and asked them nicely if I could take some photos and measurements of one of their loaders. Unfortunately it's almost a 2 hour round trip. The rep was very helpful. They didn't have a machine with the same attachment system as the bucket I have, but the main dimensions I really needed was the dimensions of the various linkages in the tipping system. I am adding the second pivot and linkage system to my loader to improve the crowd / dump rotation (I don't know the correct term for the linkage system) and I was able to take measurements of the linkages on a loader of comparable size so that I can get all the geometry right, or at least a reasonable starting point. I've already made a reasonable start on the modification and will post a thread on it when I have a bit more to show.

The JD rep explained to me that the attachment system on the bucket I have bought was not on the market for very long as the use of lynch pins for the lower attachment point proved to be less than ideal. This does not surprise me. He showed me the current style 'Euro hitch' system on several machines.

I think the way I will go is to build the hitch system to accept the simple mounting system for the bucket that I have, with the lynch-pin - this will get the loader into service with the bucket as I have several jobs backed up needing just the bucket- and then build the more complex Euro hitch system to enable attachment of a wider range of implements. The main thing I plan to acquire is a grapple. I have just come in from yet another session of dragging piles of tree limbs by hand and a grapple cannot come soon enough.

Metalworkshed- thanks again for your offer of photos and advice- I'm sure I will have questions as my modification progresses and I'll very likely need some more measurements than I was able to get yesterday. Would you be amenable to me contacting you by PM if I have something specific to ask?

Pete

 

[Deleted member 216442]

OK glad you got some measurements directly. PM in future is fine. I know the drill with moving branches and logs. I never bought a grapple but did get forks with the JD dedicated faceplate. I end up off the seat, throwing limbs on the forks then a chain wrap to hold them and off the seat again to undue the chain when dumping. Several decades of that and I still did not convince myself to get a grapple and put the extra hydraulics on the tractor for it. I have cleared acres and made roads and often do blowdowns and yearly firewood and still haven't gone to grapple. Duh. Regarding the suitability of the pins, I have bent a few and have had dirt build up between the faceplate and implement to the point the pin won't go back on, but generally I've found the system works fine. Easy to make your own implement to fit, also, which I've done.