MF 210 Will Not Start

[mark777]

Sorry, It really isn't a 210, but rather an Allis 5020 with a Toyosha 2 cylinder engine. Because of the similarities it was suggested I post here. This thing will not electrical start.

This is an '80 model sat outside for over a year (muffler covered). At that time it stalled and would not start. I am helping a friend. The 4 digit hour meter indicates 660 hours.

I have changed glow plugs, fuel, oil, filters, new battery and cables, adjusted valves. I have also cleaned out injector lines, fuel tank, replaced fuel and return lines and fuel separator bowl.

If I pull the tractor 10-20 feet it will lite right off. It smokes badly...blow-by from breather and dipstick hole. When the engine is hot (normal temp that is) the majority of the blow-by clears up...but not completely. I have also added power service to the fuel....no difference. Fresh fuel, about three gallons and added a pint of MMO hoping for some improvement...Nothing.

I was hoping for stuck rings...but not sure about that. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Regards, Mark

 

[DanMan1]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It smokes badly...blow-by from breather and dipstick hole.
I was hoping for stuck rings...but not sure about that. )</font>


Maybe, it has a cracked head or cylinder /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Sounds like it has a comresssion problem.
Do you have the tools to check compression?

 

[mark777]

I have most the tools necessary...but my diesel compression tester turned up missing earlier this year.

I don't believe it has a blown or leaky head gasket. When it runs, it runs fairly strong and after a few minutes the blow-by clears up considerably (not completely). Radiator coolant has no indication with exhaust bubbles and exhaust doesn't show any water vapor.

I dropped by the tractor owners house and it turns out his employer actually owns the tractor. I explained everything I have tried, replaced and all the symptoms indicating an overhaul. And since he paid for all the fluids, parts and I only provided a few nuts, bolts and new battery cables and ends...I told him no charge (I was really trying to just get it out of the shop).

He asked me to overhaul the tractor and he attempted to give me a check right then and there. As tempting as that sounds, I couldn't take his money until I was sure about parts availability.....and tearing into the tractor may be a little foolish if I can't locate all the parts to repair it.

To most it would seem a little crazy to spend ($5K is his cap) that kind of money on this tractor. You could easily replace the unit with another, in much better condition. And I found myself trying to talk him out of it and suggested one of my tractors or I would be willing to locate another and check it out for him personally. He is only interested in this one as he bought it in '82 in almost new condition with just over a hundred hours....there is an emotional or sentemental attachment and he wants it (engine/electrical) back to original.

So now, I am looking for a short-block, complete engine, complete overhaul set with gaskets or even a very, very good used engine - if all the parts are not available for a complete rebuild.

A larger or smaller engine will not fit in the hole. So I need the Toyosha S126 two cylinder 71 cubic inch engine...

Sorry about such a long post and thanks for your suggestions.

 

[DanMan1]

<font color="blue"> "At that time it stalled and would not start"</font>

Because of what you said here, I would rule out stuck rings for sure, as the problem first happened all of a sudden after it was already running.

 

[Nasty135]

Mark, It may be possible that the compression is too low, that the starter doesn't spin the motor fast enough to start </font><font color="blue" class="small">( It smokes badly...blow-by from breather and dipstick hole )</font> <font color="blue"> </font>
By pull starting it the required RPM to light off the engine is probably more than that of the starter...

Next question is once it has been running for awhile and the smoke clears up somewhat , Will it restart by using the starter? We are assuming the starter is good and spins the motor at the specifed rpm. (sometimes a starter will still spin a motor over but not fast enough to start,even with a known good battery, I have seen this only once before)

Only other thing I can come up with would be something like a burnt exhaust valve releiving enough of the needed compression during the start sequence and by pulling it you are able to overcome the threshold of the leak? or perhaps a broken valve spring thats not sealing completely that may not have been noticed during your adjustment (A compression test is really the next step for sure) Since this is a 2 cyl. motor its really going to compound the issue since it is half the engine, That is unless both cylinders are suffering from the same problem /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Once its running from pull start could it be that the compression is helping to close the valve which helps to keep it running? Will it idle at slow speed?

Sounds like a rebuild might be necessary /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

These symptoms are making for some good troubleshooting!!


This is just food for thought, Hope it helps

 

[mark777]

Dan,

It stalled and then sat for over a year...They tried to start it and it did start when they pulled it with another tractor. Then I picked up the tractor.

Nasty135,

Since I've eliminated everything else (fuel lines, injectors, tank and airfilter) it is highly likely that there is not enough compression to electric start.

It will restart with the starter after it has warmed up. There is about a 5 minute window before it cools down too much, and then I'am back to square one. It wont start. It won't even start with ether.

From the RPM range of about 600 minimum to 2600 maximum it runs continiously and will not stall or die out until I hit the fuel shut off lever. No abnormalities other than the typical 2 cylinder vibration at lower RPM's. And the lowest oil pressure so far has been 50 lbs @ 200* while operating the tractor for over an hour in low range and first gear....while trying the ATF and oil mix and MMO in fresh fuel...That's when I was hoping for stuck rings.

As far as the valves and seats I haven't pulled the head so???
I honestly didn't notice the springs when I adjusted the valves.

I will talk with the owner tomorrow and pull the head if I can locate a headgasket locally.

Thanks again guys for your suggestions and feedback.

Regards, Mark

 

[DanMan1]

You have me curious now.
Please let us know what you find.

 

[mark777]

Dan,

I pulled the head Tuesday. Clean, no cracks and nice fat exhaust and intake valves. The bore is a little different story. Slight scars and discoloration on the cylinder walls. And I can rock the pistons (slightly) with my fingertips, from side to side. This things got 3.625 (3 5/8") pistons and a 3 7/8" stroke. Actually pretty impressive.

I split the tractor, striped all the ancillary items off the engine and pulled the engine this afternoon. I'll pull the pan, crank and camshaft tomorrow morning so I can get it to the machine shop.

I finally found all the parts for the overhaul from a dealer in Kansas. Actually he has some, some will come from Atlanta and the rest from St. Louis (I think that's what he said).
It looks as though the vertical scars indicate broken rings and there is indications of taper in the cylinder. Nothing drastic like I first assumed, but just enough to create the loss of compression and severe blow-by.

Thanks again for everyone's feedback.

Regards, Mark

 

[jimmysisson]

This is real interesting, keep us up on it if you can, thanks, Jim

 

[DanMan1]

From my 205-4 manual, your 210 engine is also a Toyosha (metric), and has bore of 92mm and a stroke of 95mm. The bore matches your measurement but the stroke seems to be off 95mm = 3.74". I don't know why it is different.