Mercedes Diesel?

[Christopher]

Is there anyone here familiar with the Mercedes Diesel car? most specifically the 300 turbo diesel. I have been told these cars last forever, true? I want a diesel car but I don't want a Volkswagon diesel. Is there anything to watch out for with the Mercedes, since I will be buying used? What about high milege vehicles (250,000+ miles) would you stay away from these? Thanks for any answers, Chris

 

[RoyJackson]

The 300SD (Turbo 4 door sedan...the 300TD is the "estate wagon") is my favorite Benz.

These engines go alonnnnnnnnng way, but the turbos don't. Since an MB dealer will charge around $1500-$2000 for a turbo replacement, cars with bad turbos can be a great deal. You can buy a rebuilt turbo for a feww hundred dollars or, get the rebuild kit (place in California called Turbo City sells 'em (or did, my info is a few years old) for a couple hundred dollars.

The "Climate Control" systems can be an expensive repair too, so make sure that works.

It probably wouldn't hurt to take the car to a shop before you buy one...a contingency...even better, take it to the shop the seller had it maintained at. They can do a compression test or a cylinder leak down to see if the engine is in good shape.

Old M-B's might be relatively inexpensive, but parts aren't. You shouldn't need much work if you get a good car. For the right price, I've have no problem buying a Benz diesel with 250,000 plus miles.

 

[Christopher]

Thanks Roy,
I have found one locally for $2,500 (300 turbo diesel 4 door) but it has 300,000 miles on it, I have yet to test drive it, I might try this week, Is this price reasonable?thanks

 

[karmakanic]

Hi Chris,

The 300D Mercedes is probably the best diesel passenger car ever built. But that does not mean they are trouble free. The engines are great, they will run 300k+ miles if they've been maintained and have not been overheated. (If these engines are overheated, they will run ok for 50k or so miles, then will lose their ring seal on the cylinders most affected by the overheating. The best years were 1985-1987. 1987 is the last year for the 300D, there were no diesels imported in 1988, and the 350 series began in 1989. The 350 series are not nearly as dependable as the 300 series.

To get a machine to last 300k miles you have to build it with tight tolerances. If it's got tight tolerances then it HAS to be regularly maintained. The maintenance records are the first thing you want to ask for when looking at a particular car. The original owners papers have a maintenance booklet which has a place for the servicing shop to stamp when the scheduled services are done. You want this log to be as complete as possible. And keep in mind, the engine is only a small part of what can go wrong with a vehicle. The transmission, front suspension, a/c and climate control systems, door lock & vacuum systems, power steering components all will require work at some time in the car's life. If the previous owner has not already repaired or overhauled these systems, you will be doing it.

There are many other things to watch out for, and I'll be happy to answer any questions by email, but this should get you started. I recommend you find a good mechanic and have a pre-purchase inspection done of any car you're interested in buying. It's easy to get one of these cars that needs more work then the car's worth, especially since they are all getting to the age they are.

BTW, the gas Mercedes will also run 300k miles, and in many cases can be a better deal then the diesels. They are actually cheaper to maintain, and they are cheaper to purchase since they don't bring the premium in the market the diesels bring. The 300E from 1987 to 1991 in my opinion is one of the best cars Mercedes built, gas or diesel.

HTH,
Dave Perry aka karmakanic

 

[hazmat]

I had a 1990 gas 300E that I bought from my dad at 155K miles. It went to 188K before it needed a new transmission.

Parts are EXPENSIVE $$$$$$$$$! I paid $200+ for the squirell cage blower for the climate control. Labor at a MB dealership can run near $100 an hour (depending on where you live).

I loved that car. I sold it because I couldn't justify paying $3,000 to have a rebuilt transmission put into a $5,000 - $7,000 car. Also, I had overheated it once (plastic on radiator broke) & would have been gambling how long it was before an engine overhaul. If I could have afforded it at the time & had space, for a second car, I would have kept it as an around town car.

If you are a good shade tree mechanic (I'm not) the cost of ownership goes down dramatically. The couple of things I did do myself, I will say that the car was a pleasure to work on. I did not find one rusted on bolt even at 10 years old! Check you local junk yards for donor car possibilites, again this will lower your cost of ownership.

 

[dmccarty]

Christopher,

Here is a brain dump on some things about diesel cars that
might be interesting to you.

There is a website that is pretty good for the Volkswagon
TDI, <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tdiclub.com/>http://www.tdiclub.com/</A>. I know you said
you did not want a TDI but there are some interesting
discussions about diesel cars on the site besides Volkswagons.
I have seen some talks about the Mercedes diesel on the site.
I would think there has to be a Mercedes specific website
as well.

The TDI is the only new diesel car that I can find for sale in
the US. Apparently the pollution regulations killed diesels
in passenger cars. The TDI is still sold because it was
grandfathered. The manufactuers are waiting until 2006?
when the new clean diesel will becaome available. Once
the cleaner fuel is out there the diesel can be built to meet
the pollution regulations. I was in a Mercedes diesel 8 or so
years ago and the guy had over 250,000 miles on the car.
The interior was a bit ragged but he was having no problems
with the mechanicals. He had bought used.

Hope this helps in some way,
Dan McCarty

 

[SimS]

Chris;

I agree completely with Dave Perry, he hit every item I have worked on old Mercedes. I'm a weekend mechanic and have spent many hours nursing a '78 280SE and a '87 420SEL. The climate controls, blower motors and vacuum systems will try your patience. Front suspension (tie rod ends, steering damper & possibly steering box/pump) will need work on high mileage cars. The heavier cars eat brake pads and rotors continously. The drive trains are very stout if maintained. Parts are expensive but readily available. I finally sold my '87 after 280,000 miles on the original engine and transmission. I have switched to Toyota, another brand that goes forever. Good luck with your Mercedes choice. They are great cars.

Sim

 

[gws]

Mercedes area great cars and will last forever if, and only if they are properly maintained. Maintenance is not cheap, nor are parts.

 

[Carl_NH]

Dave, aka karmakanic,

I was looking for and found a 87 300d 6cyl non turbo euro spec with 50K in 96 now has 117K replaced the complete exhaust and radiator, brakes etc to date. I get 38 MPG and it's a great car to own. Had a Merkur Scorpio before so can deal with the parts issues that go with these cars. They say they are $$ to maintain I find no more than the average car since I fix what's broken plus do what I call pre-emptive maintenance - don't just replace the part, fix what caused the problem.

I have friends with the 80-85 series 300TD's 5 Cyl turbos and they still say these are some of the best series built. I like my 300 and would buy another in a minute.

Regarding pricing an 85 300TD (non wagen) for $3500 for a good condition car is in range with less than 200K mi, althogh expect good records and condition for this price. You can find a decent 87 in this area for about $4-5000. gas, but very few diesel.

Carl

 

[patrickg]

I'm rapidly forgetting most every thing I knew about MB 300TD (non-wagen) 4 door sedan with nearly 300,000 miles. It was a great car. 5 cylinder turbocharged diesel. Same engine as the larger, heavier, roomier, and more luxurious SD. Just enough pep to be safe to drive in SOCAL on freeway, do not recommend the SD as it performs slugishly(same engine much more weight). No matter what don't get a 240D (D stands for dog! it really is.) Wife loved her MB but we sold it to friends in prep for move to south central Oklahoma. She thought it would be a social stigma in our rural venue. They are not rare on the interstate or in Oklahma City, but don't see many around here.

There was a series of years with catalytic thingies in front of the turbo. The cat things fail and break up and go through the turbo. MB replaces them under waranty but it isn't worth being stranded at random intervals. Our MB was an '82 and did require some initial maint (due to prev owner defering some) but then was essentially trouble free year after year after year. the A/C compressor costs $800.

Patrick

 

[karmakanic]

hazmat,

Funny you should mention your MB needing a trans. at 188k. I'm rebuilding the trans in my 300E this week, and she just turned 188k. Pulled away from a stop and suddenly lost all forward umph. Knew exactly what happened as soon as I rolled to a stop and found I had reverse but no forward gears. The rear band broke right at the weld bead where the apply boss is welded to the spring steel band. Same place they all break.

See, that one of the things with German cars. They always break the same pieces, and usually around the same time or mileage. The problems they have are design problems, not build quality related. We call them program failures. The American cars seem to have more build quality problems, although I don't work on them so I'm going by hearsay. The Japenese, welll, they don't have design problems or build quality problems either. But that's cause they cheat. They let the Germans work out the initial design problems, and then just refine the design for improved dependability.

Back in the mid seventies I was working on a Datsun (now Nissan) 240Z, I think it was a 72 model. I needed to replace a worn valve adjuster on the Datsun but the dealer didn't have one in stock and the car needed to go. Saw a 68 Mercedes 280SE engine core we had laying in the corner, had pulled it out a few days earlier to replace, cause customer had overheated and pretty well destroyed it. The valve cover was off, and my eye just fell on the valve adjuster Mercedes uses. Noticed it looked eeriely like the Datsun. Pulled it out and compared. It was identical! Installed it on the Datsun and sent it out the door. Subsequently found out the two engines were an almost exact copy, except the Japenese removed the troublesome fuel injection system, and added an additional head bolt to solve the overheating problem.

FWIW,
Dave Perry aka karmakanic

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>No matter what don't get a 240D (D stands for dog! it really is.)</font color=blue>

A neighbor and close friend bought one new in '81, and then in '82, we bought an Isuzu I-Mark diesel sedan, parked them side by side with the hoods raised, and compared the appearance of the engines. They "looked" almost identical except the fuel return lines on the Mercedes were plastic and the Isuzu were steel. And the Isuzu used a "normal" sized battery while the Mercedes had a long narrow (and expensive to replace) battery.

The Isuzu had a 3-speed automatic and the Mercedes had a 4-speed. And we never raced them, but the Isuzu "felt" like it had better acceleration.

Anyway, the neighbors put over 200k on that 240D before trading it off, and we eventually gave the Isuzu to one of our daughters and she later traded it off with only 158k on it. They had both held up well except that the Isuzu body and upholstery was getting into pretty sad shape.