MAPP Gas replacement

[Raised on a Deere]

I posted this question on Garage Journal and got some really good information but I still could use some practical advice on how to install my AC for yet another charity case and also in my new home. Around 2006 I installed some split systems for some charity cases but also in my home. I used MAPP gas torch which was barely adequate for brazing the 7/8 copper line set on mine. I used nitrogen while brazing and system has not leaked in 12 years. Some of the welds were not pretty but got them sealed. The replacement MAPP gas will not get the job done I am pretty sure because it sure is not as much heat or as hot. MAPP went out of production sometime in 2008. It's MAPP Pro now and not as hot.

If I can avoid getting a acetylene rig I would like to although the turbo torch looks like my best alternative for brazing copper pipe, it doesn't require oxygen.

The reason for this post is just to catch the benefit the experience of someone who is succeeding in brazing HVAC line sets with MAPP Pro or other none acetylene means by using some tricks like insulated brazing site enclosures or fire brick or what ever. I have been thinking about fabricating some metallic surrounds that will ventilate but still hold heat on joint to speed up the weld so I don't heat things downstream and up stream too much.

I keep telling myself to quit whining and just get the tool but acetylene rig cost for a one time use just sitting around taking up space keeps making me balk. When the time comes in a few weeks I will just do what ever I have to do but I am pretty sure I am not the only person who is competent to do their own systems except for having the brazing rig, that has solved this better than I have so far.

 

[/pine]

I posted this question on Garage Journal and got some really good information but I still could use some practical advice on how to install my AC for yet another charity case and also in my new home. Around 2006 I installed some split systems for some charity cases but also in my home. I used MAPP gas torch which was barely adequate for brazing the 7/8 copper line set on mine. I used nitrogen while brazing and system has not leaked in 12 years. Some of the welds were not pretty but got them sealed. The replacement MAPP gas will not get the job done I am pretty sure because it sure is not as much heat or as hot. MAPP went out of production sometime in 2008. It's MAPP Pro now and not as hot.

If I can avoid getting a acetylene rig I would like to although the turbo torch looks like my best alternative for brazing copper pipe, it doesn't require oxygen.

The reason for this post is just to catch the benefit the experience of someone who is succeeding in brazing HVAC line sets with MAPP Pro or other none acetylene means by using some tricks like insulated brazing site enclosures or fire brick or what ever. I have been thinking about fabricating some metallic surrounds that will ventilate but still hold heat on joint to speed up the weld so I don't heat things downstream and up stream too much.

I keep telling myself to quit whining and just get the tool but acetylene rig cost for a one time use just sitting around taking up space keeps making me balk. When the time comes in a few weeks I will just do what ever I have to do but I am pretty sure I am not the only person who is competent to do their own systems except for having the brazing rig, that has solved this better than I have so far.

Always used what is called a "B Tank"...it's a single tank of acetylene that draws oxygen via the torch head...much cheaper to rent than a OA rig...if you know any plumbers they probably have one in their trunk...they are great for silver solder...Mapp gas is OK but the B Tank is what most pros use...

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Early in my AC&R career I silver brazed refrigerant lines up to 1 1/8" with a B tank and air entrainment torch like Pine above. It took the biggest tip made for that torch; had huge ball of fire and was real slow to get it hot enough. Obviously it is not good in tight places unless you want to create a fire in the structure. O/A set up is the best, all you need is the light duty one sold by HF. Tips are compatible with Victor so you can get other sizes. Only cheap *** employers provides the B tank set up. I rapidly moved into commercial/industrial work and that was the end of the b tanks except for soft soldering and the leak detector function; back then the torch handle accepted a leak detector. They were pretty good and sensitive but electronic and now some of the sonic units are better; with the the new non-chlorine refrigerants it does't work. One problem with O/A is a lot of folks tended to overheat the copper after using the B tank set up.

Ron

 

[dragoneggs]

Early in my AC&R career I silver brazed refrigerant lines up to 1 1/8" with a B tank and air entrainment torch like Pine above. It took the biggest tip made for that torch; had huge ball of fire and was real slow to get it hot enough. Obviously it is not good in tight places unless you want to create a fire in the structure. O/A set up is the best, all you need is the light duty one sold by HF. Tips are compatible with Victor so you can get other sizes. Only cheap *** employers provides the B tank set up. I rapidly moved into commercial/industrial work and that was the end of the b tanks except for soft soldering and the leak detector function; back then the torch handle accepted a leak detector. They were pretty good and sensitive but electronic and now some of the sonic units are better; with the the new non-chlorine refrigerants it does't work. One problem with O/A is a lot of folks tended to overheat the copper after using the B tank set up.

Ron

Thanks for the education, Ron. My limited experience with O/A was screwing around with my ex FIL's set up. I am impressed that some can control the flow as required and weld nicely. I wasn't good at it. I did like cutting with it until I finally got a plasma cutter years (decades) later.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Propylene could be used. But nothing is as hot as Acetylene really when it comes down to brazing.

 

[yomax4]

You really should consider more than 1 option. I like the Turbo torch with Propane for some applications, B tank for others but a Porta Torch set MC/R20 is also needed for tight areas where you need real time heat and a tiny little flame. It's all about cost when you do the HVAC for a living. Many times you can get by with propane for very little cost. Other times due to space and pipe size you will likely need oxy / fuel to do the best job. Good Luck !! it's fun stuff !!

 

[LittleBill21]

i'm prolly going to get crap for this, but have you looked at super brite 8? can use regular propane, alot of guys will say no, but i read alot that say yes, its what i plan to use when i do my new system and im capable of brazing...

this is a long video, but it reconfirmed my wanting to use Stay-Brite #8 , also no need for a nitrogen purge

Brazing v.s. Soft Solder - YouTube

 

[fried1765]

Propylene could be used. But nothing is as hot as Acetylene really when it comes down to brazing.

Propylene????

 

[GLyford]

C3H6, aka "MAPP Pro", aka propene:

Propene - Wikipedia

 

[yomax4]

i'm prolly going to get crap for this, but have you looked at super brite 8? can use regular propane, alot of guys will say no, but i read alot that say yes, its what i plan to use when i do my new system and im capable of brazing...

this is a long video, but it reconfirmed my wanting to use Stay-Brite #8 , also no need for a nitrogen purge

Brazing v.s. Soft Solder - YouTube

Stay-Brite and Stay-Brite 8 are great low temp silver bearing solders. Nice thing about them is the remelt at approx 550 degrees is a bit higher than the original melt that's about 470. Bad thing about Stay- Brite is that it's not that good for refrigerant temps. I used it for it's quick ease when I plumed my cabin. Quick and easy but you need good fit up and should wash off the acid flux when done.