Making a living with with your machine?

[4570Man]

There seems to be a fair bit of work these days but getting the right connections takes time and yeah I don't want to hire people to run my equipment especially with some of the newer operators around that know nothing about pulling a wrench or what end of a hammer to use. And I don't really want to get a machine any bigger than maybe 12 tonne. Something like a Kubota KX-080 would be ideal.

I haven’t been quick to jump on the mini excavator and skid steer wagon because so many jobs require both. Problem one is moving them. I’d have to settle for each being half as big because making 2 trips to move them individually takes too much time. Second problem is 2 machines is double the cost. That’s money I don’t have right now and I’m not willing to sacrifice half the size and twice as worn out. I’m strongly considering trading my 310 for a M59 which would gain a lot of versatility back that I don’t have with the 310. I’d eventually add a midi trackhoe if I went that route.

 

[TXCOMT]

I rented a trailer from a local U-Haul dealer a few weeks back and happened to ask about business...he says the U-Haul side is OK, but where he really makes his money is renting construction equipment. I was a little surprised, but he says many contractors don't want to buy the big stuff, so they rent it when they need it from him. No fuss, no muss. That was news to me; I figured those guys would want to own their stuff, but apparently not...anyway, to the OP's question, I'm too new to tractoring to even consider such a thing, but I could see the appeal if you were so minded. That's the key: being good at making money. The reason four out of five businesses fail is because those four should've never opened in the first place. Be careful trying to turn your avocation into your vocation.

TXCOMT

 

[crashz]

I run a small tractor business on the side and so far its been great. Like the poster above, I pick and choose the jobs I take and try to take on work that I can safely do in a day. But it would have to be kicked into overdrive to pay my bills.

The insurance is not bad. We have a landscaper policy that also covers a few other things, but keep in mind that that includes excavation to point. I believe the maximum depth I can excavate to without upgrading my insurance is 4ft.

If you are building your business, one brick at a time, it will take time. And as TXCOMT mentioned, it may be worth your while to rent as you need it until you build enough capital and clients to justify the cost of a new machine.

 

[Molalla1]

I run a small tractor business on the side and so far its been great. Like the poster above, I pick and choose the jobs I take and try to take on work that I can safely do in a day. But it would have to be kicked into overdrive to pay my bills.

The insurance is not bad. We have a landscaper policy that also covers a few other things, but keep in mind that that includes excavation to point. I believe the maximum depth I can excavate to without upgrading my insurance is 4ft.

If you are building your business, one brick at a time, it will take time. And as TXCOMT mentioned, it may be worth your while to rent as you need it until you build enough capital and clients to justify the cost of a new machine.

One must carry the umbrella policy . . .

 

[MESSMAKER]

I stay busy doing tractor work but at the end of the day equipment failure will make or break you. I make good money if everything works as it should. I would say I spent one of every 4-5 hours on repair or maintenance. You have to figure that in as well as fuel and insurance

 

[L47TLBwannabe]

I rented a trailer from a local U-Haul dealer a few weeks back and happened to ask about business...he says the U-Haul side is OK, but where he really makes his money is renting construction equipment. I was a little surprised, but he says many contractors don't want to buy the big stuff, so they rent it when they need it from him. No fuss, no muss. That was news to me; I figured those guys would want to own their stuff, but apparently not...anyway, to the OP's question, I'm too new to tractoring to even consider such a thing, but I could see the appeal if you were so minded. That's the key: being good at making money. The reason four out of five businesses fail is because those four should've never opened in the first place. Be careful trying to turn your avocation into your vocation.

TXCOMT

Yeah as part of my unofficial business plan I wanted to buy a machine I could afford to make payments on with my regular job hence buying my Kioti tractor recently, I'm not expecting to go full time right away or anything but I have done a few things to ensure I can get some work like getting my septic installers course done and along with the tractor I bought a stump grinder that's run off the pto which has started to generate some interest already. As far as any excavation work I'll either do that with my bosses excavator as I already have his blessing for all this stuff or I'll rent a machine until I've got enough business coming in to justify buying my own. I've been running equipment for 20 years so I already know how tough it can be.

 

[TXCOMT]

Yeah as part of my unofficial business plan I wanted to buy a machine I could afford to make payments on with my regular job hence buying my Kioti tractor recently, I'm not expecting to go full time right away or anything but I have done a few things to ensure I can get some work like getting my septic installers course done and along with the tractor I bought a stump grinder that's run off the pto which has started to generate some interest already. As far as any excavation work I'll either do that with my bosses excavator as I already have his blessing for all this stuff or I'll rent a machine until I've got enough business coming in to justify buying my own. I've been running equipment for 20 years so I already know how tough it can be.

Excellent...good luck!

BTW, what kind of stump grinder? I could see where a PTO-based machine could be handy around my place!

TXCOMT

 

[Geotech]

The short answer is no, you cannot make a living like that. Not if you want net income much above the poverty line. Buy 10 machines and run 10 crews, now you can live normal, not upper, middle class.

 

[edgarrian]

I have thought about doing this as well. I have a 1705 massey with quite a few attachments. Id probably want at least a 100 dollar pull in charge. Nothing less than that. I have a tiller, rotary mower, trac vac. I have also thought about including services such as mosquito control, and cleaning of septic tank filters. I believe septic tank filters are most likely neglected and never pulled out to clean. I clean mine during the winter time every year. Its easy and painless.

I use to own a link belt excavator. Its there biggest one with a blade on it. I installed septic systems, ran sewer lines, farmers field tile, dug foundations. I did it part time. I helped dad with his landscaping business. He only put out yards as he had a harley rake. Which by the way is an impressive attachment. His business was bigger than mine. We both still had full time jobs. My dad it for extra income and he did well with it. My business did ok. I ended up getting out right before the housing crisis. I got lucky. I made money when I sold my stuff. I was working 80-95 hours a week. It was becoming a real drag. granite I had money but I didn't feel as if i was making enough to justify my sacrifices. Plus in that county excavators were a dime a dozen. Plenty of competition. Basically i sold my stuff, moved to indianapolis where my college friends were and enjoyed my mid 20's to late 20s. I got out of the equipment operating business and landed a job in the oil industry. The rest is history. So far its been a great move. I still live Indiana and work two weeks and then two weeks off. So thats why I'm looking to try to start a small business.

I think if a guy is thinking about installing septics systems that a excavator should be the first choice. I wouldn't use a tractor with BH attachment. But if you have to start some where then you gotta do what you gotta do. Indiana has that dumb septic license as well. I have mine but I don't have any interest in doing those. I have here in the past a few times but I don't really enjoy doing them. Also people have said that insurance is going to be your major concern. Meh I had insurance when i had my little excavating business and it wasn't bad. I think 1000 to 1200. That was also 20 years ago.

 

[attract her]

Talk to your accountant, lawyer, and insurance agent, then decide if putting a machine to work for hire is justified. The accountant and lawyer won't be bad. The insurance agent will likely change your mind.

- like -

 

[4570Man]

Why do you prefer an excavator for putting in a septic system over a construction backhoe? Digging is the easy part. Moving all the material is way more work.

 

[edgarrian]

If the septic system required pipe with stone. Id park the dump truck at the end of the trench. I dig out section of the trench, place pipe then dip the stone out of the bed of the truck. I know a lot of guys don't like doing that but i found it to be much easier. I never messed up the dump bed of the truck. You just gotta be careful. It kept the customers yard cleaner as far as not having stone in part of their yard. I find it easier to dig out ur septic tank hole with an excavator. I basically grew up on an excavator so it just came natural to me. I know when my dad would put yards for a new construction home. Sometimes those guys would get septic stone all over the place. Who ever installed the septic system they would generally drop all their stone one spot. Then bucket to the trench. Stone would be everywhere. When I installed a stone system I would never leave a site with that much stone every where. Typically in Indiana you would use the chamber system which is easier. Generally you have to install a perimeter tile which I would think if you used a BH with for that. It would be very time consuming. When I had to install a perimeter tile. Id use my dads tractor. I would dig out a place on the property about a foot deep then dump my stone there. The stone pile would stay in my little hole i dug out. Once I used the up the material for the perimeter tile. I would just cover the remaining stone which wasn't much with the dirt I excavated for the pile. I never over loaded my bucket so that it was spilling out. People always noticed how clean my site was.

Why do you prefer an excavator for putting in a septic system over a construction backhoe? Digging is the easy part. Moving all the material is way more work.

 

[4570Man]

Dipping the stone out requires owning your own truck and keeping the truck tied up the whole time vs hauling another load. I can dump the gravel in the gravel driveway and move it with the loader. There’s no down time waiting on a truck and no need own a truck and still no mess. A construction backhoe is a completely adequate tool for digging a septic tank hole. A construction backhoe is a completely different class machine than a tractor backhoe. There’s no shortage of people claiming a mini excavator out digs a backhoe. If the competition was fair they would. The excavator to actually do that is a rare breed. In my area you hardly ever see a mini excavator bigger than a 50 series mini. The 50 series is seriously lacking the brute force of a 310 full size hoe. If you want to buy a used mini bigger than a 50 it’s going to cost a lot more because there aren’t many out there. The smallest full size excavators require much bigger trucks to move.

 

[edgarrian]

Ur right in that it would take time to use only one truck with my method but I had the time to do it that way. Its not as if I had 20 jobs lined up to do. It was a side gig for me. I typically had 4 to 5 jobs at any given time. When I worked for a family owned excavating company. Thats how we did it with them as well. WE used two dump trucks. Once one was empty then a guy left to get a load. We would never dump the septic stone in the driveway as it was a much different stone. Basically in indiana its common to use limestone for the driveway and basically river stone for septic. So you wouldn't mix the two otherwise you would piss off the home owner.

Ill always disagree that a backhoe out digs a track hoe any day. I understand that they are more versatile and you can do many tasks. But with an excavator if you are talented you can do just as much. I could load logs in a dump truck without a thumb on the bucket. Backhoes are certainly capable and as you stated most likely cheaper. As a experienced operator id much prefer a trackhoe as many experienced would side with me.

You gotta do what your finances allow you to do. When i purchased my excavator slightly used it was a hair under 30k. That same machine now is 70k. Crazy how much stuff has gone up. Its kind of scary if you are looking to be a small excavating company such i was. I had a trailer, dump truck, excavator. I would rent a equipment off an on. Actually thats how many big companies are starting to navigate there excavating needs. They are renting the big equipment.

Anyway I get that the backhoe for you is most likely the better option. Do it, to it.

Dipping the stone out requires owning your own truck and keeping the truck tied up the whole time vs hauling another load. I can dump the gravel in the gravel driveway and move it with the loader. There痴 no down time waiting on a truck and no need own a truck and still no mess. A construction backhoe is a completely adequate tool for digging a septic tank hole. A construction backhoe is a completely different class machine than a tractor backhoe. There痴 no shortage of people claiming a mini excavator out digs a backhoe. If the competition was fair they would. The excavator to actually do that is a rare breed. In my area you hardly ever see a mini excavator bigger than a 50 series mini. The 50 series is seriously lacking the brute force of a 310 full size hoe. If you want to buy a used mini bigger than a 50 it痴 going to cost a lot more because there aren稚 many out there. The smallest full size excavators require much bigger trucks to move.

 

[4570Man]

Here we use limestone for everything. Limestone is $8-10 a ton before delivery. The river rock is like $70 a ton. An equal weight excavator will no doubt out dig a backhoe but you need a second machine to equal the backhoe. The second machine brings its own problems. Primarily cost and getting it to the job. And the digging is the easiest part of a septic install. Putting in gravel and dealing with dirt that doesn’t fit back and spreading everything back around takes way longer. I hate how slow tracks move and how bad they rip stuff up. I’d be more inclined to buy an excavator with wheels. But again very rare on the used market. Mini excavators are over rated in efficiency IMO. Spend way longer getting to the site, dig maybe 20 percent faster and then spend way longer doing what the front loader is better suited for. A lot of the hate for backhoes is caused by tractor backhoes. The efficiency of a swivel seat construction backhoe is a much closer contest. My buddy has a 50 series mini excavator which is the biggest mini in common use. I’m aware there’s a few bigger but they’re rare. There’s only a few jobs he can do faster than the 310. Digging ditches with a 36” bucket isn’t one of them. Digging ditches with any bucket and covering them back up with unlimited room isn’t one of them.

 

[4570Man]

Backhoe vs Excavator - YouTube

 

[flashpuppy]

The big sticking point is your definition of a living. I am fairly certain that I could not duplicate my salary with a tractor or skid steer and dump truck.

 

[edgarrian]

Backhoe vs Excavator - YouTube

We used a backhoe for about 3 days on a job spreading top dirt at warehouse that was getting its final touches done on dirt work. We at first used a back hoe to load the dirt into a dump truck. It was slow as molasses. My supervisor got a excavator 4 days after and it was much quicker. There is a reason why you don't see back hoes being used very often at a big construction site. The back hoe just didnt have enough *** (weight) to break up the dirt that had been sitting there for year. It was also compacted b/c they used scrapers to build long top dirt pile. It was much easier with the excavator. This little example was surely to be won by a backhoe.

 

[4570Man]

I doubt you brought in a mini to replace the backhoe and probably got a full size excavator. And working for 3 or more days is a much bigger project than putting in a septic or similar task. A mini simply can’t do the work of a backhoe and needs a skid steer to help. Aside from spending considerably more money up front how long would it take to justify the extra time spent hauling 2 trips going and coming vs just working slightly less efficient?

 

[edgarrian]

I doubt you brought in a mini to replace the backhoe and probably got a full size excavator. And working for 3 or more days is a much bigger project than putting in a septic or similar task. A mini simply can稚 do the work of a backhoe and needs a skid steer to help. Aside from spending considerably more money up front how long would it take to justify the extra time spent hauling 2 trips going and coming vs just working slightly less efficient?

Everyone has their own preference. For me it was an excavator. For you its a backhoe. Job tasks is another consideration. I dug a lot of basements and i would say with doing a job like that you would want a track hoe. Basically I did a lot of foundation digging, tree removal, fence removal, field tile, backfilling, septic installation, tearing down old silos or barns and boring them. For me it made more practical sense to have an excavator for those tasks. I don't know what you are wanting to do other than install septics. Some of the tasks I have mentioned I don't think is well suited for a backhoe.