LS Tractor Shuttle shift problem

[shawnmav]

I have an LS 5065CPS tractor with about 245 hours and it started abruptly shifting in to gear when you shift the shuttle shift from Neutral to forward or reverse. The higher the gear the more abruptly it feels when it engages and takes off. I normally work in 2nd range and 4th or 3rd gear most of the time and it has no smooth transition from neutral to forward or reverse even when you use the clutch. As I let the clutch out as slow as possible it will just kind of lunge in to gear, regardless of if being in reverse or forward, at about the last inch or so of pedal travel. The dealer i got it from frist replaced a sensor on the transmission behind the fuel tank and it worked for about 30 minutes or less after I got it home so I took it back. Then he stated that he just had to tune it a bit via the programming and when I tested it at dealer it seemed to be shift in to gear smooth again. Then the very next time I used it a couple of days later at home it was engaging abruptly again. So back to the dealer it went and he stated that he would again adjust or tune it again through the programming and also check all of the grounds as he stated that could also cause this condition. I left it there a week and tested it out for about 20 minutes after he had completed his work one afternoon and it seemed to work well again. I then took it home and was cleaning out an alley way in my arena and after about 35 or 40 minutes it began to engage abruptly again. To clarify what I mean by abruptly, when I shift the shuttle shift in to either direction as well as if I use the clutch, the tractor will do nothing for approximately 2 seconds and then just engage and take off in which ever direction I have selected. The selector switch on the dash is set to road mode but the condition exits regardless of the position that switch is in. I bought the tractor brand new so this is all warranty work. I have not been able to find any issues like this or otherwise that anyone has published on the internet so if anyone has seen this problem or maybe have a direction to go in I would appreciate and will pass it on to the dealership. I am beginning to wonder if there isn't some trash in the hydraulics, (from an o-ring or something else that may have failed or during manufacturing), a pilot that is not operating correctly, a bypass that is faulty or something like that and is temporary corrected by programming but then fails when the trash or sticking pilot or bypass frees and works. Anyway I have not idea at this point and would appreciate any thoughts anyone may have.......Thanks

UPDATE: One other note on this is that since the dealer last modified or tuned the programming the tractor will transition in to gear as designed for about the first 35-45 minutes of operation and then after that it will begin to engage abruptly. I ran it the past two days after allowing it to warm up idling at ~1300rpm and the outside temp was around 45 degrees. The only work that has been done to this tractor other than regular scheduled oil changes was the dealer changed out a module that he stated was a known issue and caused the tractor to occasionally shut down randomly. That was changed out at around 50 hours.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

Crickets chirpin'....
Sorry to hear this Shawnmav. The PS's have been really reliable for us, but I was going to suggest a hydraulic, trash, o-ring situation like you already mentioned. Sounds like your dealer is doing their level best, and I'd have to assume that by this point they've been in contact with LS tech support, who are excellent. We're working on one now with a hydraulic issue and will chime in here again if we learn anything that might be helpful.

 

[shawnmav]

Thankd ProdaddyTX. I kind of figured it would probably be a quiet one on this problem they don't have a long history like the ford Xn models and such but figured I would put it out there just in case, better to ask and get nothing than not and to wonder.....thanks again for the reply

 

[shawnmav]

One more update: I noticed while running the tractor this weekend that the problem may be more related to the actual number of times you shift the tractor from forward to reverse and so on. When the problem has been present it has so far always been when I have been using the tractor for moving manure/dirt or bales, situations where you are traveling in one directions for a time and then need to shift back and forth as would be the case in such work. This weekend I probably used it for about an hour or more where I was manually shoveling dirt in to the bucket that I was digging out by hand and then dumping the bucket when it was full. So unlike the times before where I was driving down a long alley and scooping up dirt with the bucket and backing out to dump it repeatedly the only difference was really the number of times I ran the tractor and the rest of the time it was just stopped and idling while I loaded the bucket.

 

[shawnmav]

NEW UPDATE: Yesterday I was using my tractor and it was shifting smoothly as designed. At about dusk I turned on the forward facing lights and it immediately began to engage or transition in to forward and reverse abruptly. I then turned off all of the lights and it resumed shifting or engaging smoothly again. So I took the time to test this theory out thoroughly and repeatedly got the same results. With lights on or the blower and air conditioner on it would engaged in to forward and reverse very abruptly. When you turn them off it resumed transitioning smoothly. If I turned on only, say the top lights, there was no real noticeable difference but it seemed the more auxiliary electrical load you added the sooner it would occur along with severity would seem to increase.

 

[lostcreekranch]

Can you put a meter on your battery, with tractor running, and repeat your experiment? My LS is HST but, I would suspect your shuttle shift is electrically operated? If voltage at battery keeps going lower, as you add aux. loads, you might be at point where voltage is too low to smoothly shift?

Worth a try?

 

[shawnmav]

That would be interesting to see how much current it pulls with that stuff on as well as see if I am experiencing a voltage drop. What I would really like is to get a look at an electrical schematic and also a hydraulic one as well. I asked the dealer about seeing or getting those but he kind of disregarded my requests. I am pretty certain I would be able to track down the issue if I had those available but my dealer/mechanic said he would get it resolved. I think he will but I could probably get there faster with my knowledge and experience in controls and hydraulics.

 

[lostcreekranch]

So ..... did you put meter on battery and see what voltage does as you add aux. load? Obviously, current draw increases as you add load but, will not be an issue if you have good battery and alternator.

Or, since you only have 245 hours, let dealer figure it out?

Trying to help.

 

[abears3]

Did you get this fixed? I'm having the same problem with my XU6168CPS. Towards the end of the day it was whip lash going forward and reverse. I'll check tomorrow if the lights played a role in my problem but the A/C was on. I'll check the battery voltage too.

Any other ideas other that bring to the dealer 3 hours away?

 

[BlessedMess]

Dealer replaced inoperable poweshuttle control module (right of seat, underneath 3PH lever) on XU5065CPS, and programmed it to "factory" default setting. Resolved operation but engagement was extremely aggressive regardless of the switch setting (travel/work). A handheld computer was used to drop the setting from ~80 to 8 and it restored the smooth engagements. My theory is that that PS module is somehow defaulting back to the aggressive "factory" tune but why: temp? wiring? electrical/module issue? FYI: the module is about $400 and requires the whole right side of cab interior to be pulled apart to be replaced. Also there is some PS wiring that runs between the fuel tank and frame. The connectors are prone to inadvertent disconnection when running thru tall grass and brush when cutting. If you ever pull the tank, good opportunity to examine and tape/zip tie as a preventive measure. Best of luck with your PS issues.

 

[abears3]

Thanks for the reply...I was hoping it was something simple like a low battery or alternator. Guess I need to load the old goat up bring it back to the dealer.

 

[Jason1974]

Dealer replaced inoperable poweshuttle control module (right of seat, underneath 3PH lever) on XU5065CPS, and programmed it to "factory" default setting. Resolved operation but engagement was extremely aggressive regardless of the switch setting (travel/work). A handheld computer was used to drop the setting from ~80 to 8 and it restored the smooth engagements. My theory is that that PS module is somehow defaulting back to the aggressive "factory" tune but why: temp? wiring? electrical/module issue? FYI: the module is about $400 and requires the whole right side of cab interior to be pulled apart to be replaced. Also there is some PS wiring that runs between the fuel tank and frame. The connectors are prone to inadvertent disconnection when running thru tall grass and brush when cutting. If you ever pull the tank, good opportunity to examine and tape/zip tie as a preventive measure. Best of luck with your PS issues.

Good morning. I also have a xu5065 open station that the transmission falls out of gear for a cpl seconds then drops back in. The dealer says poss trans control module causing it. I see you posted you found one for $400. They quoted me $720 for the module. Could you post a link or send me a email where you found it for that price possibly? Thank you in advance.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

That's probably a 2016 price he posted.....
Now, 12 years later, $720 sounds about right....

 

[silvernations]

I’m having a similar issue with my R4041 with the EZ shift shuttle. Sometimes the shift is rough but most of the time it throws an error code and just locks me out. I’ve tried everything I can think of. All of the actuators seem to be working fine. I’m at a loss

 

[Jason1974]

That's probably a 2016 price he posted.....
Now, 12 years later, $720 sounds about right....

Ok thank you. I was praying that he had a place to get parts less exp then the dealer.

 

[treadlok]

I know a lot of these post are old but I have a 2021 MT573CPS with the same problem with very rough shifting. Like in another post the tractor will sit still for about 2 seconds after shifting the lever from either forward or reverse then it will shift very abruptly or it has no hesitation at all just bam. I have had it to my dealer several times and each time I have had a regional service manger working on it. The first time it had the wrong tcu so it was changed. there was not anyone able to reprogram it so the Korean gentleman had to be called in. It worked at the dealer but when I got it home and started using it. It started doing the same thing. The next time back to the dealer the regional service manger checked the clutch pack pressure and told my dealer it was in the wrong shift number. I never ran it over a number 3 when it came back home it was in 9. That was a waste of money for a haul bill. The next time the regional service manger drove the tractor and if finally shifted hard. The regional service manger said it needed forward and reverse clutch packs. After new clutch packs I got it back and it worked for about a week maybe. Then guess what back to the same old problem. I use my tractor mainly for making hay and feeding cattle. My dealer had a service school at his shop and there was three different regional service mangers at the school. I talked to some of them on the phone and they had several different things it could be. Most of which has been tried. Just like the gentlemen said about shifting rough when you release the clutch. I said something to the service mangers about when you try to ease into a bale of hay while using the clutch. I was told that the clutch pedal was not for easing it was an on off switch. Being the curious person I am. I looked up on the LS parts website the clutch switch. The description with the part said it was a sensor potentiometer. I may be wrong but I think this means it is a variable sensor not an on off switch. I was also told I had purchased the wrong tractor for hay. I should have gotten a manual shift. This did not set well with me. I contacted LS support in Battleboro NC and spoke with the plant manger. This was a waste of time. I have tried to get someone to come ride with me and hook up a laptop and see if anything shows up. Nobody will come out. In my opium( you know what they say about them)you can guess what might be the problem and replace parts witch can get expensive or you can go out where the problem is and try to diagnose and fix the problem. It has always been when you take anything to the dealer with a problem it very seldom shows up. Then when you get it home the problem returns. I hope someone has found a fix for this problem before the transmission or rear end lets go.

 

[GS650GL]

You are correct, the clutch control is a variable potentiometer and not an on / off switch. There are calibrations that can be done to make it smoother but I'm sure that has already been done. And sometimes after calibration it works OK for awhile and goes back to the way it was. I worked on many Case IH and McCormick tractors that had the exact same problem. You could get it all calibrated and working smoothly, and then suddenly it would default back to the way it was before. ECU's, speed sensors, temp sensors, shift solenoids, and alternators were all replaced. Wiring and grounds all checked. Software was updated. Transmission disassembled and rebuilt. Calibrated dozens of times. When we thought we had it fixed, it would do it again sometimes intermittently We had to eat the $20,000 bill on a Case IH Magnum because we couldn't cure the problem after doing all those things. Same with the McCormick Xtra shift. You are not alone, other people have had the same problem, and with other brands too not just LS. I feel your pain and wish I could help, but certain tractors with this type of transmission are just a problem child.

 

[treadlok]

Wow you were put through the ringer on that repair.
Thanks for the info. I have learned how to use my tractor and avoid the hard shift. Over all I like the tractor. Thank you again for the reply I defiantly don't feel as bad.