Looking for GLow Pluge JM 284

[SPIKER]

Hi all:

I HAVE 3 new glow plugs for my JM284 which has Y385 engine. I bought glow plugs when I bought the tractor as spares. BUT like most of the stuff I got as spares these don't fit my tractor. Tractor ones are a good 1/2" longer than the spares I have. I am going to call Tommy down @ affordable tomorrow for replacements unless anyone has spares that are also wrong and need the shorter ones that may want to trade... Numbers on MY boxes are

" SF:375Q 480Q 12V " INFO on plastic bag looks like " 68G-122 " from "Yancheng tractor factory" rest is in Chinese

My tractor was made/mfg in Jan 2002.

anyhow see if I can help anyone out. I did drop one of the copper washers off the end someplace, they are tiny things and is lost in grass...

I was working on my tractor added a small relay to bypass the factory wiring and figured that my glow plugs were OK and that the key switch was going bad. but after doing some checking it was the plugs were/are bad I get an OPEN when reading with ohms on the glow plug buss bar.

anyhow what I ended up doing is similar to what others are talking about adding a relay into the starting circuit in the other post about not starting. I used a factory AMP ON or ALARM ON 12 volt relay which I had and came with an old car alarm. I did install a 30 amp circuit breaker and wired it so the NEW breaker is between the Amp Meter and Gauge fuses so I still will see the amp draw on the meter. I was thinking about adding NEW wires 10 gauge stuff but that will have to wait until I get the shop floor in as I still have been nursing the clutch until I can get a good working place to break her down & pull the clutch apart & find out why I have no pedal.

I confirmed that the KEY was/is still OK after 6 years of use. I'm also still using the FACTORY battery that I got from china. this I am amazed at in more ways than one. In fact this battery was pretty much DEAD after I left the key on for 3 weeks.. I put in some of that battery revive chemical and kept it on a small trickle float charger I got from HOMIER TOOLS after re-charging it. that was 3 years ago now.! so I guess that battery chemical stuff must really work. I DO keep it on the trickle charger most of the time as it is weeks between uses anymore.


mark M

 

[greg_g]

Resistance is so low on those glow plugs, that they really should be removed from the block and tested individually at room temperature. If memory serves, acceptable resistance through your plugs should be somewhere around 1.7 ohms each. And by testing resistance at the buss bar, you're measuring 3 in parallel.

In this configuration, the total won't be much more than half an ohm. So unless you have a pretty accurate ohmmeter, I can see why you may have interpreted the reading as a short to ground. Alternatively, the feed wire could possibly be shorted. That too would give you that "open" indication.

If the factory feed wire is ok, there's no problem connecting it to the small (S) post on your relay. Then use a short section of 10AWG stranded from the output to the buss bar. I got input voltage (through another section of 10AWG) from the switched starter motor supply. That way the glow plugs will continue heating as long as the starter is cranking.

And yeah, Chinese batteries are fickle. Those that came in my two Jinmas were trash, I replaced them almost immediately. Same with the one that came with my KM454. Yet the original is still working just fine in my TS354C.

//greg//

 

[SPIKER]

Greg:
an OPEN indicated that resistance is in the mega ohms, (millions of ohms) basically no way to let any electrical current past through. I imagine that the plugs internal wires broke away leaving the insulated ends connected to nothing., I called to get some sent and they were sent, UPS said they left them on the door. NOPE none on my door step, now I need to ask the neighbors if they got my toy parts.
I hate UPS, I have a dang green sign with MY address on it hanging 3 feet from my drive way end and right on my mail box. YEP they can't find it...


GGRRRRR.

Mark

 

[greg_g]

that's why I put quotation marks around your original use of the word "open" Mark. Your words: "...after doing some checking it was the plugs were/are bad I get an OPEN when reading with ohms on the glow plug buss bar."

The buss bar gangs the center conductor of each glow plug. For you to get an open between an installed buss bar and ground, all three glow plugs would coincidentally/simultaneously and necessarily have to have open center conductors. Figure the odds. Now three bad ones right outa the box, I've heard of that. But three previously installed and working plugs going bad simultaneously.......?

But - because the combined (parallel) resistance is so very low - I thought you might have misinterpreted your meter reading as a short. You need a pretty fair ohmmeter to accurately measure what should ordinarily be a <1 ohm reading.

Question: did they work before you started installing the relay?

//greg//

 

[SPIKER]

Hi Greg:

they have not worked for a while, I noticed it mid summer that the amp meter would not swing to - (discharge as normal) over when switching and or starting. I am not sure when they stopped, They worked last fall & every time this past winter. I think it may have been my brother at it again. He stayed out at the farm for 3 ~ 4 months while I had my back surgery)

Seems every time he uses it he screws something up. I think he may have burnt them out when I was down with my back, I saw he had used the tractor several times at least.
He dropped it into a trench when running the back hoe, cooked the clutch digging dirt & clearing trees. (I think he was riding the clutch. which has not worked right in over a year.)

I can surmise that he held on the glow plug heat too long is only reason I can come up with...

I had to sign up and become a member at UPS to file a lost claim, I made a special trip to the farm today to talk with all the neighbors, none of them received my parts, (I went 3 homes each way.) Only one couple was not home that I stopped at. they are NEW to the HOOD, moved in 2 weeks ago so maybe they just don't know anyone yet. though one neighbor said they seems like good folk if not slightly religious, which would be good for someone to return them. anyhow I will be calling parts supplier ASAP. it was 50 bucks I can't afford to not have and worse I need the tractor this weekend and still had the glow plugs out so with rain & cold I put the OLD ones back in to keep dampness down in cycl.


I basically wired my setup/relay a bit different. I went for the fact that I wanted to see the Amp Meter swing when I went to glow plug heat mode. I tied a NEW 10 ga wire from the Fuse Box Hot, (just down from the amp meter) to a 30 amp breaker (bypassing all the factory fuses) then to the contact of the new el-chepo relay (it has 30 amp contacts) and out from there to the buss bar using 10 ga wire. I then fire the relay using the same switched / key operated power that used to go straight to the glow plug buss bar. While I do not have the ability to run the plugs while cranking this set up, it does still show the plug heat on. I will change this around and put in some real wire later and use a separate switch and red light across the glow plugs to indicate power is on the buss. (probably small dash mounted push button with light in it). (neon or LED light.) I will also using a few diodes tie the light across in parallel with the brakes so I stop driving around with them set ( Diodes as one light powered from 2 different sources.)



Mark M

 

[greg_g]

I understand your desire to observe the current draw, I have however found it unnecessary. When simply placed between the OE keyswitch wire and the OE bussbar, an independently wired relay bypasses all the OE wiring that was responsible for losses to the bussbar in the first place. The OE keyswitch wire is no longer carrying the load, it's merely switching the relay that's now carrying the load. And the very audible click that the relay makes is indication enough for me that the glow plugs have energized. I did this on a Y485 that doesn't have compression release. I assume that your desire is to watch the ammeter needle drop as the glowplugs warm up. But the fact that mine starts every time after a silent 10 count - is proof enough for me.

For your consideration; I'm actually using two relays - one for the starter solenoid (keyswitch START), one for the glowplugs (keyswitch HEAT). I consider these relays as standalone circuit protection, so didn't add any additional breakers or fuses. The revised current draw through the switch wire is negligible anyway, and there are fewer wires too. As stated, I used the OE wire from my keyswitch to the small (S) post on the glowplug relay. An insulated section of 10AWG stranded copper delivers 12v from the starter motor hot post to the large input post on the glowplug relay. Another piece of 10AWG connects the glowplug relay output post with the bussbar. I have a third piece of 10AWG connecting the glowplug relay S-post with the switched input to the starter motor. This connection keeps the glowplug relay energized while the starter motor is cranking.

And to bypass charging voltage losses through the OE wiring, I ran one final piece of 10AWG between the alternator B+ post and the starter motor hot post - effectively routing full alternator output, straight to the battery.

If this approach interests you, I can email the wiring diagram

//greg//

 

[SPIKER]

Hey Greg:

i'm interested int he alt wiring , mine I don't think I can add the wire across to the starter post due to no control. I believe it has external voltage regulator, where I can connect to the starter post its output. The factory wiring is pretty weak for sure. I do wiring on and design large industrial drilling systems usually 480vac 3 phase, and 24vdc systems. I also can see where saving 100 bucks on wiring on 10 machines is not much but if you build 100 machines a day then that can add up fast. while the factory JM wiring may do the trick it is however ok at best...

I don't see where the relay will protect any circuitry though. They are simply switches and have no fusing or circuit breakers in them. unless you have some new ones which may have over loads built in?

Mark

 

[greg_g]

No, they're just cheap (under $20) relays. The protection is in the fact that they'll sacrifice themselves.

Contact me via site PM, and we'll exchange email addresses. It's probably better if we work one-on-one offline.

//greg//

 

[Red55]

Spiker-

Don't know if you bought your relay yet but suplus center has one for $2.99
item 11-3222 looks like the same one I used for my glow plugs

Burden Sales Surplus Center Item Detail
-Ed

IF you put item # in the part will show up there's currently no stock

 

[SPIKER]

HI RED:
I used one like this without the socket
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008111821540615&item=11-3222&catname=electric

I had some relays that I picked up locally for a buck a piece at a close out electrical place. I picked them up they were originally parts used for a car alarm. alarm fired the relay which ran horn lights ect. they had a box full of them, 30 amp, I grabbed a hand full and still had one or two prior to starting the project. I have more SOMEPLACE but can't seem to remember where the paper bag full went...

that is usually my luck, I have junk setting un-organize all over, when I NEED it I can't find it when I clean up & look at all of it and say That is all good stuff but it has been in the way long enough so I get rid of it. needless to say I will NEED the stuff I get rid of with in the week and the stuff I keep I will not use until I miss place it and then will not be able to find it until after I buy a new replacement. Once the replacement is bought I will be able to pick up the piece I was after in about 3 min or less...

Mark