Looking for advice on square hay balers

[vtlpluyr]

We have been making cattle hay for the past few years as a hobby. All round bales... Because of a change in our circumstances, having a big old empty barn, lots of teenage help, and having a lot more time and flexibility with time, we are considering getting into horse hay. I have been given advice by many about which baler to buy and how much to spend. We could easily produce 10,000 bales per year, that said it is our intention to start with 1000 and double production every year if the market supports it. We are often approached by horse people wanting our hay so we are somewhat confident that it will workout. We were given the following advice and seek validation:

1 - An older gentleman / friend says we should look for Massey-Ferguson 124 with a thrower and a good wagon. He says $2500 to $3000 would get us one in great shape and he could help us with setup. If for whatever reason we decide that it is not a good business for us, it can be sold easily, and losses would be limited. If we see that it is a great business, then we can go out and buy something bigger and better, 2 or 3 more wagons, and keep the 124 as a backup (or run it in parallel when possible). He knows that baler inside out, and says he would be able to tell pretty quickly if a used one we are looking at it is a good one. He says that there are other balers of that vintage that are equally good, but he does not know them as well, and would not be privy to the little issues that they all have. With a 124 he would be there on demand to help.

2 - Another friend says the market is there so don't half do it. Get a New Holland 565-570-575 (Or John Deere 328-338-348) that is in good shape, have a dealer with a good baler mechanic update anything that may need updating, get 3 or 4 good wagons with metal racks, and just go. Baler cost will be $12,000 to $20,000 but we will be trouble free (as much as that is possible) and the whole process will be more pleasant. All of those balers will apparently run circles around the Massey 124, make nicer bales, and have way more parts available now and will for a long time to come. Local mechanics know those particular balers very well also.

Is all of this information correct?

 

[kebo]

First off, let me say that I have zero experience with baling hay, so now that I have that out of the way, I would like to offer my opinion. It's absolutely worth what you will pay for it too. Sometimes though, it helps to get an unbiased opinion on some matters.

Based on the information you provided, I would go with option #1 to start with. It sounds very reasonable, you get some support from your great friend, and that gets your foot in the door to a small scale haying operation. I would think that after the first haying season, you will know by then if you want to pursue it more aggressively, and then you could give serious consideration to option #2. I believe that if the demand is there now, it will still be there in a year or two, all those horses are not going to die off in that amount of time, or leave the country to head down to the USA, right?

Looking at it from the reverse angle, suppose you started out with option #2, and then after the first haying season you found out it was more than you bargained for, you didn't want to do it, didn't really have all that time like you thought, or for whatever reason(s) you just want to stop it. It may be a bit harder to ramp down, or sell off the high dollar equipment without taking some $$$ loss maybe.

There is one other option that you may or may not have considered and that is leasing some (or all) of your hay fields to someone with the haying equipment, and you just sit back and let him do all the work. All you would do is collect the annual lease fee. That's a fairly common arrangement and works for a lot of landowners.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[super55]

I would go with option 1 as well. Input cost are fractional compared to option 2. You already have guy that knows the balers well so that is a huge bonus.

You have lots of help now but in 5 years will all that help still be available? I would get a good used baler, at least two wagons and some tarps large enough to cover the hay in case you have to rush and get the hay up and don't have room in the barn for all the wagons.

While rained on hay might be ok for the cattle guys horse owners typically won't go near it.

 

[RickB]

Option #1 only makes sense if there are a boatload of MF balers and MF baler support in your area. Otherwise, Modify option #1 to read 'older New Holland 200 or 300 series baler or Deere 6 or 7 series baler that has widely available parts support and local service support as applies to your local area. Keeping costs down is a good thing, but not if you have a yard full of orphan equipment. "Here" a MF baler is considered an orphan. There were only ever a very few at best, and certainly are less than a very few now.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Hi, and :welcome: to the forums.

If you will post your question in the Haying section, you will likely get more answers from those who are using hay equipment on a regular basis.

 

[Creamer]

I am only familiar with NH 200 or 300 series balers and they were certainly the leader in that time frame. I do not know anything about a MF baler but having someone who will help you and knows them is worth a lot more than a new baler. You will be able to make great bales and get by very well just maybe not bale as fast as you could with a newer baler. It is a great place to start and you can always sell it and upgrade.

One wagon is plenty if you are only going to do a 1000 bales. But wagons are cheap as well and do not depreciate much.

 

[RickB]

I am only familiar with NH 200 or 300 series balers and they were certainly the leader in that time frame. I do not know anything about a MF baler but having someone who will help you and knows them is worth a lot more than a new baler. You will be able to make great bales and get by very well just maybe not bale as fast as you could with a newer baler. It is a great place to start and you can always sell it and upgrade.

One wagon is plenty if you are only going to do a 1000 bales. But wagons are cheap as well and do not depreciate much.

One wagon is plenty if you are baling 100 at a time. When hay is ready to bale, two or three wagons are the minimum needed to keep the baler moving no matter how many teenagers are available.

 

[Will_C]

I haven't done any baling on my own, but when I helped a farmer 35 years ago, we used 3 wagons-and the 3 of us teenagers unloading had to move right along to get an empty wagon back so the farmer wasn't waiting. That was with a 5 minute hail from the fields to the barn.

Will

 

[strum456]

I'd go with option #1 and one more wangon. Unless the weather is very cooperative, it will be a challenge to get in 1000 bales of GOOD hay with only one wagon. As was mentioned, wagons don't really depreciate.

 

[powerscol]

I am just a small operator, but went through this a few years back. Look into an older hesston inine 4550 and up. or the new Hesston/MF inline units. The new 1840 is in a league of its own if you have the HP to run it.They are trouble free and can be set up with any number of accumulators to facilitate getting the hay out of the field. Hope this helps.

 

[fishheadbob]

I too would think you need more than 1 kicker wagon. When your hay is windrowed and ready to bale with a sudden shower on the horizon the 2 or 3 more wagons are a gamesaver.
Ontario seems to have a heavier Massey presence than other areas, so perhaps MF is a good choice for you, but perhaps not. Don't disregard New Holland or Deere as their hay equipment is first class. Look around for nearby good dealerships; talk to your locals and see how they're doing with their line of equipment and support. Inevitably you will have a breakdown at the worst possible time, you need to be up and running in a hurry and a dealership that can provide what you need right away is a major factor. You already have the round baler. Definitely consider how your experience with that brand has gone.
Breakdowns always happen on a Friday night when everything will be closed for the 3 day holiday weekend; "but it was only a $29 part" . Don't matter, you're still down. At least you have the round baler to bale you out.

 

[Ed of all trades]

I used to put up 10000 bales a year and would keep my eye open for a good used baler cheep. I would fix them up and sell them. I had just finished one, a 200 series NH when a neighbor called and said his brand new NH baler had broken could I help? I still had it hooked to the tractor and took it to him. He baled over 1000 bales that day. I had been pulling wagons for him and when we finished he came up to me and told me he had only 2 or 3 that did not tie and that his new baler would not do that. He said it also baled just as fast and offered me $2500 for it. I had paid $250 for it a week ago and had no new parts in it. I went home with no baler but a big smile on my face.

I tell this story to say new is not always better. Those old balers will put up hay well and last forever if you take care of them. There is no computer on the old one and you don't have to pay the bank for the price of the old one in interest. Go with the old one, I don't think you will be sorry. Ed

 

[vtlpluyr]

Thanks the "orphan equipment" term stuck with me... We have a couple of orphans from years gone by - they start to pile up

 

[Farmer495]

MF balers were made in Canada and there were lots sold. Pretty well every farm had an MF baler, seemed really weird to see an IH, Deere or NH baler until the 1980's

 

[Trillium Farm]

I am just a small operator, but went through this a few years back. Look into an older hesston inine 4550 and up. or the new Hesston/MF inline units. The new 1840 is in a league of its own if you have the HP to run it.They are trouble free and can be set up with any number of accumulators to facilitate getting the hay out of the field. Hope this helps.

+100 I totally endorse Powerscol advice, the inline whether new or gently used is the way to go. I would add an accumulator and grapple and you're off to the races!

 

[forestcreature1]

When venturing into unknown mechanicals, I like to ask the people who repair them about history, parts availability, etc.

I also support option 1, you can always move up to option 2.
Hard to recoup from option 2 if things aren't working out [market, weather, etc].

 

[whitepine2]

Did you ever think of getting a unwinder for the round bales and make them into the square ones when you are not under the gun to get it off the field and as one said horse people are pickey,this way they would get good hay. I've owned several NH starting with the old NH77 bullet proof,last was a 273 with super sweep loved the super sweep worth the extra $$. Would not consider any other than NH the few JD around here would always seem to give trouble NH was KING of course that was many moons ago and all most all are round balers now a days less work and the teenagers grow up and seem to get lazy.

 

[2458n]

Bailers never break when they are in the barn. Option number 1 seems to be winning. If MF is the go to machine in your part of the country, and you have someone to work on it your half way home. The round bale to square bale is a idea that some farmers use around here very effectively. Grandfather used to bale hay with one kid on the wagon. He had three wagons that stayed on the farm, and one good wagon for the road if he sold hay out of the field. We would un load the wagons after supper when more help was around.

 

[vtlpluyr]

Thanks for the advice... I looked high and low for a Massey but the ones I found had been sleeping outside for years and looked it... Found a meticulously maintained JD 348 with a thrower and bought it.

 

[hoho]

I have been a buyer of horse hay and a seller each for twenty year . the horse hay buyer is a women,she is the horse lover Also she has say over if the hay is good the man may pay but she will tell if they buy again.You will have to think about delivering hay and storage if only for a few days.i am now only handling bales on to elevator in to hay loft and if i sell and must deliver for more cash,good luck