Looking for a track loader. What is undercarriage?

[geobar]

I am shopping around for a used trackloader, or even a payloader, and trying to stay under $6000. I have read prior posts with tips about pins, bushings, sprocket, steering, transmission, leaks, etc. When someone says a machine has a 50% undercarriage, what components are generally being referred to and what are approximate repair costs for a machine 15,000 to 30,000#? If a unit with 50%uc has 3000 hours, would it be reasonable to expect to get another 1000 hours before incurring any major expenses? I trust your input vs. from the seller any day. Any leads in nePA is also appreciated.

 

[MadReferee]

The undercariage is usually rails, sprockets, rollers, pins, bushings and track links. A 50% undercarriage usually means that the components are, on average, 50% worn. So if the unit has 3000 hours does that mean you can get another 3000 hours? Absolutely not. Another 1000 hours? Maybe, maybe not. Wear depends on how the machine was operated and under what conditions. Undercarriage components can be very expensive both parts and labor wise, especially if you are talking about a larger, heavier, older machine. In my opinion, anything under 50% means big bucks in the very near future. In any case, you should find someone knowledgable in heavy equipment to go look at the unit with you.

Here is a link for an undercarriage wear guide.

Undercarriage wear guide

If you are looking at older Caterpillar or IH dozers thate are specific web forums that discusss those machines. There are also several generic heavy equipment forums that might be helpful.

 

[dirtworksequip]

geobar, for 6 grand expect it to be well used! If someone tells you they have a good farm machine,stay away from it. That just means its worn out and just suitable for light duty and sitting around the farm. I doubt that you will pick up a machine for much less than 10 or 12K.

 

[Dozernut]

The others have pretty much said it all. 6K will not buy much of a machine, you will end up with someone else's problems. Try to stay away from the gray market machines unless you have a dealer that will sell you parts, some will not. Try to get a machine where the drive sprocket unbolts in sections and you do not have to pull the sprocket with a multi ton special puller. I have pulled them with a 20 ton bottle jack and chains but it is a PITA. Unless you have the tools, support equipment, deep pockets and a good mechanical ability, stay away from the older well used machines. I don't know what conditions or material you are handling, but a skid steer or one of the Cat or ASV rubber tracked units might fill the bill. Yes it is more than 6K but by the time you buy an older machine, install new undercarriage, maybe steering clutches, repair the main clutch, motor, hydraulic pumps and cylinders you will have about the same amount as you could buy a new ASV or Cat and have a warranty.

 

[EddieWalker]

You've recieved excellent advice.

You will only find a project machine for $6,000. Parts alone can easily cost more than that when it breaks down, and IT WILL break down. All tractors wear out, but track machines are gonna be more expensive and more dificult to fix. One that cheap is gonna be very wore out and will need allot of care.

Never trust the hour meter. 3,000 hours isnt' much on a machine, so if you find one with that many hours, it's wrong. That's not even two years worth of regular work. It's not uncommon for a ten year old machine to have 15,000 hours on it!!!!

Finding an undercairage with minimal wear is pretty hard to do. Allot of machines are sold be cause nobody wants to pay for a new undercairage. If the pins haven't been turned, than you can have that done for under a grand, but if they ahve been turned and both sides are worn, than you'll need new tracks. Tracks on small dozers can run from $3,000 on up depending on how common they are. Sprockets are cheap. A couple of hundred per side is about average. The idlers can be bought one at a time as needed, so that's not too bad.

For this reason, the seller will always be on the generous side on the amount of wear on the undercaraige. They will advertise it as a certain amount and it's up to you to figure out how accurate that is. 50% is pretty bad, so if he's advertising it at that amount, it could easily be 30%, wich would be terrible.

A worn undercairge will mean tracks slipping off. Losing a track is always a nightmare, but losing it out in the field, in the woods or in any other location other than in front of your shop could be one of the worse experiences of your life. If you can't replace it yourself, it could also be very, very expensive. You ever see a tracked machine sitting in a field or some woods someplace? It because the owner can't afford to have it fixed. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

When my hydraulic pump started acting up, I had the dozer shiped to Case to look at it. Cost was $400 round trip just to get it there and back. For another $500 they told me that all three pumps were bad and that it would cost $18,000 each to replace them. Yes, $54,000 for the repair if they were to do it for me. I later found out it was just out of adjustment after the problem started to fix itself. I did rebuild one pump and drive motor for $3,000 and my labor, but that was a differnt problem.

Can you do the repairs yourself? If not, don't expect anybody else to. You are way down at the bottom of EVERYBODIES priority list if you need help. Tractor mechanics can just about write there own ticket on what jobs they decide to take, and comeing out to your farm to work on your older machine wont' interest anybody who got worked lined up on $100,000 to $500,000 machines.

One very common repair that you will have to do will be to rebuild the hydraulic cylinders. You can gurantee that a few, if not all of them are worn. If they are not leaking today, they will in a few months. One at a time, or several will start to leak on you. If you ignore it, it will just get worse. Hose will also break all the time, but those are real easy to change.

Before you decide to buy a machine, it might help to know why you want it and what need to do with it. Track machines are not very good toys to buy in order to just have around. The maintenance on them is terrible, they beat you up driving them and they suck up allot more fuel than an equal HP wheeled tractor will.

Can you weld? Can you take of one inch bolts? What about larger ones? I have a 3/4 impact wrench that I use on mine. My half inch 500 pound wrench is way too small.

How old is the machine? I know you haven't found one yet, but finding parts for older machines can be very time consuming and expensive. What will you do if your hydraulic pump fails? What about the clutches? The list is almost endless and I'm not just saying this to scare you. I'm saying this because I've been there and I'm still there.

Right now my dozer is down because my pivot pin on my blade is wore out. Parts are almost $3,000 for new stuff. I've come up with a way to weld some 1 1/2 inch plate to one piece of it and 1 inch plate to the other sides to create a point that will rub and wear out over time, but not very quickly. I've had to have somebody else do most of the work because I'm not good enough to make sure it will hold together, nor do I have to tools to cut that thick of material precicely. I'm hoping to get it done for under $500, but so far, it's been almost a month and I'm running into nothing but delays. It's always one issue after another.

If it's just a few jobs, it's far cheaper to hire it out. It doesn't matter what the operator you hire charges, it's gonna be cheaper. If you know how to run the equipment, or don't mind paying to learn, than you can rent most heavy equipment. The problem with renting is you might spend three days doing half a days worth of work. Not that I'm trying to be rude, it's just what I've observed with my own dad who liked to run my dozer. Some things he can do, others he can't. He doesn't know the difference, so I have to be very careful in what I let him do and what I keep him away from.

The day I sell my dozer will be a day of celebration!!!!

Eddie

 

[js5020]

geo, my experience with heavy equipment is hire it out or rent a machine, old iron is just old and tired! Of course unless you are fond of putting tracks back on after ya throw one... Seriously, I recently built a new home, did everthing myself,,,, except the excavating and punching the hole for the well,,,, excavator had a nice 951 Cat, paid him for the work, I got the better deal cause the machine went back to the shop with a blown final,,,, don't think he made any money. But if ya gotta play and have deeeeeeep pockets well ya know.

 

[thatguy]

I think boats and dozers go by the same saying

The happiest day is the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.. LOL

brian

 

[fried1765]

I am shopping around for a used trackloader, or even a payloader, and trying to stay under $6000. I have read prior posts with tips about pins, bushings, sprocket, steering, transmission, leaks, etc. When someone says a machine has a 50% undercarriage, what components are generally being referred to and what are approximate repair costs for a machine 15,000 to 30,000#? If a unit with 50%uc has 3000 hours, would it be reasonable to expect to get another 1000 hours before incurring any major expenses? I trust your input vs. from the seller any day. Any leads in nePA is also appreciated.

Put another $20,000 with your $6000, and you MIGHT get a somewhat reliable/usable machine.
Been there .....Done that!

 

[RedNeckRacin]

You might be pleasantly surprised at what size machine you can get when you start shopping for track loaders. They have really fallen out of favor with most contractors unless they do large pipe installs or land clearing. I just saw a 350 deere track loader for sale on Craigslist in the Saint Mary's pa area for 5k. I would plan on a few thousand for repairs being the nature of the beast but I just bought some track rollers for a 550 at around 125 a piece and an idler for around 500.

 

[Deere Dude]

My next door neighbor has a Case cat and a track-hoe in a small field in front of his house. He (or a maintenance man) was working on them both a few months ago but they are still sitting there. He came over for a little backhoe job and I asked about them. He said he just spent $8000 on the hydraulics on the cat and it still doesn't work and he spent $10,000 on his trackhoe and the arm still just drops unpredictable. He is a contractor and is beside himself trying to figure what to do with difficult problems with no answer.

I can envision getting a $6000 track loader and putting $10000 in it and still have problems that can't be easily solved and will make unresellable.