Loftness fast-ax verses..DENIS CIMAF

Robbie Hegwood · Jul 10, 2008

For those who are interested... My local dealer and I had a demo Tuesday. The attendies where my demo head the DAF-080 and the new Loftness Fast-ax. It had a 63" wide cut. For those who don't know the new Fast-ax rotates the same direction as carbide cutters.

Round one. I let them go first. Since I ran a timberax for awhile I was HOPING for more. It did cut better than the old timberax and did leave a smaller chip size, about double what a DENIS CIMAF head leaves. But that is about it. It still left the planed trunks on the ground and the larger the material it started to really struggle. If you engaged mutiple smaller stuff it also struggled. I finished by cleaning up what he left and showing what a Cimaf head can do.

Round two. They asked me to go first. I set the bar kinda high. The first thing I went after was the biggest trees I could find. It was a clump of sweet gums that were all coming from the same stump base. The largest was 8" with atleast 6 trees varying down. That was pretty easy. Then they mounted up the Fast-ax and gave it a go. He tries very hard..to hard and the customer noticed. He asked why he was killing that poor little head. It just didn't want to handle multiple trees or anything over 6" well.

So. Landwise if your impressed with yours please run a CIMAF. I can outcut more effecient just about anything.

Anyway..I hope that wasn't to biased. I know I would like to hear what is going on in this mulching world.

Landwise · Jul 20, 2008

Robbie,

For the record, I think it is a quickaxe.

Compared to a carbide cutter, the quickaxe and your head are worlds apart. I never want to run another carbide around here. They do have their place (Rocks and the like.)

Also, for clarification- I never said the quickaxe was better than a Cimaf. I have run a Cimaf, and I loved it. I just don't love it $10,000 better than a quickaxe. That difference in price would allow me to put on three of their heads to two of yours.

If I was making any money, I would love to get that new Cimaf head for my 080, but there again, Cimaf has put themselves out of my reach. The current Timberaxe for the Excavator is too heavy for my little 080 (1600lbs) but I have faith in Bill and the guys at Loftness that they will make a lighter version. The full size model is only about $24,000 versus your 080 model which if I am not mistaken, is around $32,000?

Also, I am thinking of looking at the Low Flow Gyro head to put on a TL140. Do you have anything coming that is comparable? (I Don't really care for the GT Company, due to their history...)

Robbie, once again- I LOVE THE CIMAF HEAD! It is just a little out of reach for those of us that have to make payments every month. Your dealer network is not up to par. When I was looking at the CAT 297c, It was like pulling teeth to try and get financed with a Cimaf head, since no one carries it around here.

deniscimafinc · Jul 20, 2008

Again, a few comments from the manufacturer's side

As said in previous post, DENIS CIMAF long decided to focus on industrial-class products. And the Denis brothers' experience in making forestry equipment (Laurent and Gilles, with their father Jean, started Denis Equipment in 1976, which later became Denharco, and recently became Pierce Denharco) shows in the way the machines are built.

Some of the reasons DENIS CIMAF models ends up being more expensive than many commercial-grade competitors:

Variable-displacement, axial-piston motor;
Thick, heavy-duty frame;
Driving-type cogged belt (+/- 2500 hours life);
Heavy duty bearings (+/- 2500 hours life);
Most of the parts being of US or canadian origin (except for the motors that are most of the time from Rexroth or Linde, german companies);

That said, I understand that not everybody that does mulching from time to time will buy a machine designed for those doing it year-long. No cost-conscious owner will try to get a product whose benefits are not yet worth the job it will be used for. So I welcome Loftness, and Little & Co, and US Mower, and the like, because they do have their place on the market, bringing you guys to put more working hours on the expensive skid steer and/or excavator you got. And then, when you'll find you're doing mulching many weeks per year, then the added productivity of an industrial model will be worth its higher price tag.

At that point, though, I could not suggest with enough insistence the importance of charging for the job to be done, and not with a flat price per hour. If a commercial unit gives you, say, a productivity of 2 acres per day, and you charge by the hour, how much more switching to a industrial unit will bring you if you keep charging by the hour, even if you do 3 or 4 acres per day? Nothing, really, right? If you charge per area cleared however, it can make quite a difference. The customer could end up paying less per area cleared while you'd get more profit per day ; This is where the real win-win deal can happen (win-win-win, if you count the manufacturer's making a sale

)

Regarding the other comments made:

Dealer network:
We are actually building a representative network. We will sell without discrimination to any heavy equipment dealer. We're not known yet by everyone of them, but we're working on that...

Financing:
Shouldn't be any different than financing any other kind of equipment. If you ever get a problem that is not related to your credit score, let us speak with your dealer or financing company.

Low flow head:
Should I comment on this? Maybe Robbie did already... If not, let's call that a "TractorByNet" exclusive: I'll be posting some pictures of a new product, hopefully in two to three weeks. That might become the entry door to industrial-class mulchers for quite a few people...

Calm down, it ain't gonna be free, for the same reasons afformentioned. But I think it's going to be quite a cool and nasty little beast.

More on that soon...

FD

nicoexcavationandmulching · Mar 1, 2014

deniscimafinc said:
Again, a few comments from the manufacturer's side

As said in previous post, DENIS CIMAF long decided to focus on industrial-class products. And the Denis brothers' experience in making forestry equipment (Laurent and Gilles, with their father Jean, started Denis Equipment in 1976, which later became Denharco, and recently became Pierce Denharco) shows in the way the machines are built.

Some of the reasons DENIS CIMAF models ends up being more expensive than many commercial-grade competitors:

Variable-displacement, axial-piston motor;

Thick, heavy-duty frame;

Driving-type cogged belt (+/- 2500 hours life);

Heavy duty bearings (+/- 2500 hours life);

Most of the parts being of US or canadian origin (except for the motors that are most of the time from Rexroth or Linde, german companies);

That said, I understand that not everybody that does mulching from time to time will buy a machine designed for those doing it year-long. No cost-conscious owner will try to get a product whose benefits are not yet worth the job it will be used for. So I welcome Loftness, and Little & Co, and US Mower, and the like, because they do have their place on the market, bringing you guys to put more working hours on the expensive skid steer and/or excavator you got. And then, when you'll find you're doing mulching many weeks per year, then the added productivity of an industrial model will be worth its higher price tag.

At that point, though, I could not suggest with enough insistence the importance of charging for the job to be done, and not with a flat price per hour. If a commercial unit gives you, say, a productivity of 2 acres per day, and you charge by the hour, how much more switching to a industrial unit will bring you if you keep charging by the hour, even if you do 3 or 4 acres per day? Nothing, really, right? If you charge per area cleared however, it can make quite a difference. The customer could end up paying less per area cleared while you'd get more profit per day ; This is where the real win-win deal can happen (win-win-win, if you count the manufacturer's making a sale )

Regarding the other comments made:

Dealer network:
We are actually building a representative network. We will sell without discrimination to any heavy equipment dealer. We're not known yet by everyone of them, but we're working on that...

Financing:
Shouldn't be any different than financing any other kind of equipment. If you ever get a problem that is not related to your credit score, let us speak with your dealer or financing company.

Low flow head:
Should I comment on this? Maybe Robbie did already... If not, let's call that a "TractorByNet" exclusive: I'll be posting some pictures of a new product, hopefully in two to three weeks. That might become the entry door to industrial-class mulchers for quite a few people... Calm down, it ain't gonna be free, for the same reasons afformentioned. But I think it's going to be quite a cool and nasty little beast.

More on that soon...

FD

QUESTION
You claim that your head is more productive and granted it is . What happens when you hit a rock . or earth , or the client wants a close mulch ? the teeth on the DC head cannot withstand the beating . so if your more productive during the day but every hour you have to sharpen the teeth. are you really gaining? I want to get this head but im leaning towards something else that can endure accidental contact with a rock . I would like to not have to change the teeth every hundred hours of operation + having to sharpen them. King Kong tool sells DC teeth and claim that they will out perform the stock ones , but can i really trust some one that sells them under gyrotrack to avoid getting in trouble haha
please help me out here