Liner seal tolerance?

[coderbert]

Hey everyone!

I've been working on and off on a D206 engine from an IH 584 (my first rebuild) for the last few months. I just put the new liner seals (I think that is what they are called--they're the big o-rings between the sleeve and cylinder wall?) in tonight. There were two seal styles included with the rebuild kit--seals with red dots and seals with yellow dots. The notes with the seals didn't list my engine, so I just used the seals that were closest in diameter to the old seals (red dots).

I had a real hard time getting the sleeves in--I ended up use two blocks of wood and a piece of threaded rod to pull the sleeves in. This hadn't surprised me (the old sleeves were hard to pull out). Everything looked great.

After I thought I was done, though, I started looking on the web, and found out that the seals are different _thicknesses_. One (the red dots--the ones I installed) is 0.195" think, and the other was 0.187" thick.

I checked the old seals--sure enough, they were 0.185" thick. So, I most probably installed the wrong seals.

My question is: should I change the seals to the right ones? I guess the answer is self-evident (I should), but I hate to risk scratching up the new sleeves removing them. I would like to think the thicker seals would seal better than the thinner ones. I worry, though, that perhaps the thicker seal might wrap the sleeve somehow, or affect the clearance between the sleeve and piston?

Just wondering,
Major egg on my face,
Mike

Rebuilding My IH584

 

[slowrev]

The main thing is that they seal /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The old ones might have shrunk some as well. but maybe not, An engine repair manual for that engine should have the specs. You might want to post over in antiquetractors.com in the farmall section. Those guys specialize in old tractors.
Ben

 

[normde2001]

My guess is that, worst case, you merely "erred on the side of caution". An .008" thicker O ring can only provide a better seal, (unless, of course, you can find mfg. specs. to the contrary, and the thickness of the original O ring).

 

[MetalChicken]

Hmmmm. Dunno about that one.
I replaced the sleeves in my 484 last year and the sleeve/piston kit only came with one size of seal, but the I&T manual does say that you should be able to replace the sleeves with fingertip pressure - which mine did.
Were the sleeves tight all the way into the block? If so you may not have cleaned around the top of the block very well. if this is the case you 'may' get a coolant leak, but then you may not /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Worst case is that while pushing the sleeve in you may have twisted the seal slightly which again would allow water to leak into the oil. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Did you lubricate the seal with soap before the sleeve went in? that would have reduvced the chances of the seal being pinched by the sleeve.
I would fill the engine/rad with water and let it sit so you can see if the seals are leaking. Personally I'd be tempted to pull the sleeves and fit the proper ones, that way you'd know it was OK - but it would be a painfull step to take.
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[normde2001]

"Personally I'd be tempted to pull the sleeves and fit the proper ones"

Therein lies the problem. at this point, he doesn't know which are the proper ones.

 

[MetalChicken]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Therein lies the problem. at this point, he doesn't know which are the proper ones. )</font>



Ask the dealer. I'm sure the seals are available from Case IH. On the D269 engine I've just had rebuilt I was given a price for the seals on their own - about $11 each /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[MMM]

There was a redesign on these liners due to cracks at o-ring land if I remember right. There were 2 seals like you say red tracer and gold. Red were for old type that were discontinued. I'm pretty sure if you got new liners you need the Gold tracer o-ring. It wasn't just the o-ring diameter that changed, it was overall dia of o-ring itself. Could be possible oversize o-ring could pinch and leak. I don't know if I'd want to chance it.

 

[JimR]

You cannot go by the old O ring to figure out the diameter of the ring. It will be crushed and will not give you right dimension to decide which to choose from. There should be a crush factor for the O ring. If you can find this out it will help you out. You can measure the height of the liner above the block to figure out the crush factor. I would call someone that works on these tractors and see if you can find out which one should have been used. All the liner jobs that I have seen done needed pullers to be used to remove the liners. They should slide in snuggly or with a wooden block and mallet. Never should you have to jam them in with extreme force. Unfortunately my experience with deisels is from the truck side and not tractor side. That shouldn't matter much.

 

[RickB]

It won't seal better if it got cut installing it. Could easily happen with an oversize o-ring.

 

[MMM]

I dusted off the manual and checked the service bulletin about this o-ring situation. It was Fall of '79 when the casting was changed on liner bore groove. Also states "IMPORTANT" use of oversize o-ring may lead to rolling or pinching of the o-ring and poor seal.