Laser Machine Grading--Inexpensive Alternative?

[npalen]

https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-40-6791-Mountable-360-Degree-Detector/dp/B008BFHZVI

I was reading the current discussion about leveling fill with an FEL which lead to thinking, once again, about laser controlled grade leveling and sloping.

The issue with automatic hydraulically controlled control systems for leveling with a box blade, for example, are expensive in the realm of $10K to $25K.

The link above shows a relatively inexpensive laser receiver that can be machine mounted. There is also a remote readout available for it that can be mounted near the machine operator.
https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Leve...1M3V2Q8JYP2&psc=1&refRID=B7AH4BXQH1M3V2Q8JYP2

A much better price on the mountable detector:
Johnson Level Machine Mountable 36 Degree Detector 4-6791

Constant operator input via a SCV would be required as this is a manual system.

I'm wondering if any of you have tried this unit and what your experience has been? It does, of course, require a stationary rotating laser level to project the beam. These typically are in the $500.00 plus or minus range but can run much more. Most of them have slope capability in one or both directions.

 

[3Ts]

Would sure be nice to have the hydraulicly controlled rig. However, a couple of magnets mounted on a bar and the laser detector that goes on the grade rod, you can have a very basic machine mounted detector.

 

[mikester]

https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-40-6791-Mountable-360-Degree-Detector/dp/B008BFHZVI

I was reading the current discussion about leveling fill with an FEL which lead to thinking, once again, about laser controlled grade leveling and sloping.

The issue with automatic hydraulically controlled control systems for leveling with a box blade, for example, are expensive in the realm of $10K to $25K.

The link above shows a relatively inexpensive laser receiver that can be machine mounted. There is also a remote readout available for it that can be mounted near the machine operator.
https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Leve...1M3V2Q8JYP2&psc=1&refRID=B7AH4BXQH1M3V2Q8JYP2

A much better price on the mountable detector:
Johnson Level Machine Mountable 36 Degree Detector 4-6791

Constant operator input via a SCV would be required as this is a manual system.

I'm wondering if any of you have tried this unit and what your experience has been? It does, of course, require a stationary rotating laser level to project the beam. These typically are in the $500.00 plus or minus range but can run much more. Most of them have slope capability in one or both directions.

3PH doesnt have down pressure so your ability to make cuts is pretty marginal. If Im spending money on a laser grading system then Im going to put it on a machine made for efficient grading like a crawler dozer or wheel grader.

Just buy a cheap rotary laser level and attach the detector on a pogo stick mounted to your box blade. After a few hours of driving twisted around in your seat facing backwards you might rethink the setup.

 

[BertZegers]

I have a Topcon RL-4HC laser with tripod and a Trimble Spectra CR 600 magnetic receiver. I use them mainly with the excavator, but have used them with front end loader and box blade.
The advantage is that you don't have to get off the machine to get height measurements, or you can save one person on the job.
A box blade works if the angle is set right. A hydraulic top link would be great. Good for rough grading. If you want to grade a soccer field it won't work.

 

[wvgca]

the hydraulic adjust option isn't that much money, maybe about 500 or so, what -sometimes- does cost some money is a detector with relay control out lines ..

 

[npalen]

https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Leve...QH2027ZXBN4&psc=1&refRID=7SPJV6J4ZQH2027ZXBN4
This is the remote display that plugs into the machine mounted receiver and would be mounted on the tractor dash where it would be operator visible without having to constantly look to the rear.

https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Leve...90KXYECTA2P&psc=1&refRID=0SCFWHWZF90KXYECTA2P
This is a typical rotary laser with automatic leveling and dual slope capability. It shows +-1/16" per hundred feet for accuracy with an exterior range up to 2000 ft.

I think that gauge wheels behind a box blade are mandatory for fine leveling. I do have a pin-on hitch for my box blade but it also works extremely well on the 3PH. By dropping the 3PH lever all the way down and let the gauge wheels control the bite, I'm able to take very fine leveling cuts and then fill by controlling with the top link cylinder or the gauge wheels.

A heavy weight box blade is also important for cutting in hard dirt but I've found, in compacted conditions, that dropping the ripper teeth for a few passes will also bring up plenty of loose dirt. (and tree roots also The whole idea is that the gauge wheels are running on a smooth surface behind the blade and the tractor 3PH acts as a near parallel linkage to keep the box running level in spite of tractor undulations.

I am by no means asking if this "poor man's laser" is a substitute for a high dollar automatic system but rather if it might be useful for a homeowner trying to prep a smaller area on a hobby scale. Light bars similar to the above have been used in agricultural application for many years for steering a tractor in a straight line for planting, spraying etc. utilizing GPS.

Level-Best TD 84 with Topcon Dual GPS System - YouTube
Shows a typical box blade setup with an automated system. Starts at about the 1:05 minute mark in the video.

Edit: This video shows actual operation of an automatic laser controlled box blade system:
Level Best Laser Grader for Baseball, Softball, Fields - YouTube

An animation video for those unfamiliar with the laser leveling process:
Laser Land Levelling animation (IRRI) - YouTube

 

[npalen]

the hydraulic adjust option isn't that much money, maybe about 500 or so, what -sometimes- does cost some money is a detector with relay control out lines ..

That's interesting! Would you have any links to the hydraulic adjust? I was under the impression that its a high dollar servo valve.

 

[nyone]

I plan on just mounting my normal laser detector on my boom or attachment. I don't really have any projects that need the feature. Or are so small it wouldn't really save much time.

 

[3Ts]

Here's what I'm doing. It's a magnetic mount so I can put it anywhere, even on the bucket if I don't dig very deep. Attaches to any piece of metal. It would be nice to have a bigger sensor, but so would a hydraulic control system. This will have to do.

 

[bdog]

I have used a 3 point, box blade with gauge wheels style hydraulically controlled machine control setup. The speed and amount of adjustments it makes is amazing. I think it measures the height and adjusts the blade ten times per second. There is no way an operator is going to be able to adjust that fast. Also when grading you really don’t want things perfectly flat you want an ever so slight slope for water run off. If on large areas you will be amazed at the slope that is likely there even if it looks flat. The area I graded was maybe 150’ x 300’ and is right behind my house. We have gravel on it and park equipment, trucks, etc there. I always thought it was flat but it sloped nearly a foot in both directions. When I started trying to grade it level the machine was trying to remove massive amounts of material. I reassessed things and calculated the slopes and programmed the laser to match the existing slope. The rotary laser had this feature. I graded the area to this sloped plane within 1/8” and then rolled it with a vibratory compactor.

I don’t own the equipment that did this a friend does and he let me borrow it for a weekend in exchange for some backhoe work I did for him. I really want a laser setup for myself but I can’t justify the cost for the real deal and I just don’t think a homemade manual setup will work good at all. I have a $500 rotary laser and receiver but it doesn’t have any tilt functions and I think you would have to move at a snails pace to be able to even attempt to use it manually with good results.