labor for 50-hour

[citytransplant]

Took my Farmtrac 270 in to the dealer who I bought it from for 50-hour service earlier this week. All filters (hydraulic, fuel, oil) and fluids, including hydraulic, were changed. All nuts bolts torqued, including head bolts. Valve clearance checked. I also purchased a brush guard and had that installed. When I called to see what the bill was, my heart sank. All parts and fluids seemed to be priced within reason, however he wants $325 in labor.

At $65 hour, that's 5 hours labor. Even if I grant him one hour for the brush guard installation (4 bolts), would the work that remains actually take 4 hours? In an effort to be frugal I drove the tractor 3 miles there. Needless to say on top of labor above he whacked me $40 to deliver it home. He stated that since he has payments to make on his transportation equipment and costs for fuel he couldn’t make pick-ups and deliveries for free (OK, I understand that).

Finally the manual appears to call for hydraulic fluid change at 400 hours. I failed to consult the manual prior to work being done, assuming he would limit his work to what the factory calls for. Was the hydraulic fluid change unnecessary?

Next time I will determine what work I want done and communicate that to him before any wrenches are turned. Actually at these prices, next time I will do the work myself.

 

[wickedinhere]

That sure is a lot for the labor charge, he must have charged you to watch the fluids drain from your tractor. I cant imagine it being more than one or two hours
of labor to pull some plugs and change the filters and to refill fluids. I hate stealers i mean dealers LOL.

 

[jjcc246]

just had mine done at new holland, can't be a lot of differance between machines for the fifty hour service. they also did all the fluids, filters and bolts. labor charge was 2 hours @ $65 per. so $130 labor. not bad i thought.the whole bill was about $225.

 

[scott_vt]

Citytransplant,
That seems way high to me It sounds like he had another job in the shop that went sour, and your tractor was there to absorb some of the overun on the other job IMO, I would complain about it and have him itemize exactly where the heck all that time was spent !

 

[bill177]

My Massey Ferguson is coming up on 50 hours. I'll be doing the work myself. I'll get the fluids and filters at the dealer - so I will have a receipt for my logbook.

My thinking is simple: You own it - you take care of it. You learn about your tractor by doing your own work. Short of an HST, engine problem, or major warranty issue I will be doing all my work.

When changing fluids - take care to avoid spills. The stuff will screw up your paved driveway and/or stain the garage floor - not good for the pond or well either. I'll take the old fluids back to the dealer - like I have said before, I have a great dealer.

For those asking: Abele Tractor of Albany, NY Home.gif

 

[ovrszd]

Took my Farmtrac 270 in to the dealer who I bought it from for 50-hour service earlier this week. All filters (hydraulic, fuel, oil) and fluids, including hydraulic, were changed. All nuts bolts torqued, including head bolts. Valve clearance checked. I also purchased a brush guard and had that installed.

Everyone wants to jump on the dealer here. But just read what citytransplant had done above.

Wickedinhere,,,, I challenge you to torque the headbolts and adjust the valves on your tractor in an hour???? I do all my own mechanical work. Depending on how much "stuff" has to be removed before you can get the valve cover off, I would figure a minimum of two hours to do this function.

Also, when he says all nuts/bolts torqued, what does that include??? I'm not familiar with Farmtracs guidance so I don't know how many nuts/bolts we are talking about??

So, the clock starts when the mechanic picks up the work ticket. The clock ends when he hands the ticket back to the shop foreman. His time includes running the tractor up to operating temperatures before he begins and after he finishes. The clock is running while he's looking up all the torque specs. The clock is running while he is standing at the counter waiting for the parts guy to get him the oil and filters. And yes, the clock is running while the fluid is draining. That's how shops survive.

I'm not arguing for the mechanic or for the owner. I'm just stating that when you take your tractor to a shop you should ask for an estimate of time required. You can't always hold them to the exact time because they may find things wrong that take more time. For things like an initial service, most shops have a flat rate that they charge for that service. Do you think that flat rate is determined by the minimum amount of time required or the maximum amount???

I'm blessed, I have a shop and a way of disposing of my old fluids. I will only pay a shop for a service if my warranty requires that I do. Otherwise, I do it myself. I have even installed warranty repairs with the parts provided to me free of charge. But that's me. If you can't do that or don't have the blessing of the equipment necessary, then you have to be prepared to pay someone that does.

 

[normde2001]

You got ripped off. Any able-bodied man can easily do all of that work himself.

 

[DieselPower]

As ovrscd stated with the work done the labor time does not seem out of line. I to am not familiar with the engine in a Farmtrac 270 so I do not know how the overhead is set up in this engine. I do know that all engines are not the same. One engine that may only take 15-20 minutes to run a overhead while another may take 4+ hours. Depends on how complicated the adjustment procedure is and what specialty tools and gauges are required.

Not having been there to watch them service your tractor I would give them the benefit of the doubt. Afterall, this was more than just a oil change.

 

[Marcussen]

My dealer quoted me 2 hours at $65 an hour. The kubota did not require a valve adjustment check but did include filters and fluids. I did it myself and it it was close to 5 hours, most of that time watching the front end fluid drain (slow going). I will be a lot quicker next time.

 

[dirtworksequip]

My questions is: Why is a valve lash adjustment needed? I've owned a couple of tractors, 7 or 8 pieces of heavy equipment and 4 diesel autos and valve lash adjustments where not done at 50 hours. The new JD 3520 I have doesn't call for checking the valve lash until 1200 hours????? Checking at 50 just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[wickedinhere]

Took my Farmtrac 270 in to the dealer who I bought it from for 50-hour service earlier this week. All filters (hydraulic, fuel, oil) and fluids, including hydraulic, were changed. All nuts bolts torqued, including head bolts. Valve clearance checked. I also purchased a brush guard and had that installed.

Everyone wants to jump on the dealer here. But just read what citytransplant had done above.

Wickedinhere,,,, I challenge you to torque the headbolts and adjust the valves on your tractor in an hour???? I do all my own mechanical work. Depending on how much "stuff" has to be removed before you can get the valve cover off, I would figure a minimum of two hours to do this function.

Also, when he says all nuts/bolts torqued, what does that include??? I'm not familiar with Farmtracs guidance so I don't know how many nuts/bolts we are talking about??

So, the clock starts when the mechanic picks up the work ticket. The clock ends when he hands the ticket back to the shop foreman. His time includes running the tractor up to operating temperatures before he begins and after he finishes. The clock is running while he's looking up all the torque specs. The clock is running while he is standing at the counter waiting for the parts guy to get him the oil and filters. And yes, the clock is running while the fluid is draining. That's how shops survive.

I'm not arguing for the mechanic or for the owner. I'm just stating that when you take your tractor to a shop you should ask for an estimate of time required. You can't always hold them to the exact time because they may find things wrong that take more time. For things like an initial service, most shops have a flat rate that they charge for that service. Do you think that flat rate is determined by the minimum amount of time required or the maximum amount???

I'm blessed, I have a shop and a way of disposing of my old fluids. I will only pay a shop for a service if my warranty requires that I do. Otherwise, I do it myself. I have even installed warranty repairs with the parts provided to me free of charge. But that's me. If you can't do that or don't have the blessing of the equipment necessary, then you have to be prepared to pay someone that does.

I never said i could do all the work above in an hour or even two hours. I am not a mechanic by any means but when you bring it to a dealer i expect a professional to be working on my tractor and if he is charging me 65 an hour he better be efficient. I am self employed and i dont charge my customers when i am standing around thats just crazy. I can tell you one thing, i can do all the work mentioned in this thread in less than 5 hours on my tractor. Dealers love to juice up the bill thats why they get bad reps.

 

[ovrszd]

I never said i could do all the work above in an hour or even two hours. I am not a mechanic by any means but when you bring it to a dealer i expect a professional to be working on my tractor and if he is charging me 65 an hour he better be efficient. I am self employed and i dont charge my customers when i am standing around thats just crazy. I can tell you one thing, i can do all the work mentioned in this thread in less than 5 hours on my tractor. Dealers love to juice up the bill thats why they get bad reps.

Since you are self employed, you better than most here understand that you have to cover your time. When you charge your customers you charge for everything you have invested, including your time. If you didn't you would go broke.

I guess you are accepting my challenge. So I await your report of how long it takes you to change all filters (hydraulic, fuel, oil) and fluids, including hydraulic. All nuts bolts torqued, including head bolts. And Valve clearance checked. Remember you have to start the clock when you crank the tractor to begin this service and stop the clock when you have ran it up to operating temperature again and checked for leaks. This will be interesting.

 

[3RRL]

wickedinhere,
Whether or not his labor bill seemed excessive or not, it's what he had into it. What seems expensive to one guy means nothing to another?

I like that you said you would do the service yourself from now on. Allot of us guys do ALL our own services for exactly that reason. I'm sure you would feel better if the charges matched what you think it should have cost, like in your own business, you know what the charges should be. I will say this, from what you had done he's got easily 5 hours into it. So he charges you shop rate.

Next time, do it yourself. There is nothing he did you can't do. It is really good for you too, to be able to do those things and check other areas of your tractor while doing them.
As far as setting the valve clearance and changing the hydraulic oil at 50 hours, that is probably a good thing. Now you know you have clean oil and the valve lash is set.

 

[wickedinhere]

I will gladly accept your challenge. My 50 hour service will be coming up soon so i will let you know how long it takes. Kubota says my valves wont need any adjustment until 800 hours so i am not gonna get into that until needed. I just wanted to add that i just got finished installing a grapple on my 2800 and i did it under 5 hours. That includes all welding and running of the lines and installing of the valve and all wiring. I think when you pay people by the hour they tend too work alot slower than if there paid by the job. When i hire something out i make sure to get a price up front for the job not by the hour or i dont hire them.

 

[N80]

I've already done my own 50 hour and I'm not a mechanic and spent a lot of time fiddling with fluids and reading the manual and it took me about 2 hours. Torquing the bolts requires about 30 minutes max, putting on a brush guard should be a 30 minute job and all that is for someone doing it for the first time and reading the manual as they go. Now, as for adjusting the valves, I wouldn't do it myself but two thoughts come to mind, one, a competent mechanic shouldn't require more than an hour and two, a new tractor shouldn't need it anyway. May manual requires it at something like 1000 hours.

You guys can defend that shop owner all you want but something smells _real_ fishy on this one. Five hours is ridiculous and the things he did are suspect (but, I don't actually know what the Farm Trac manual calls for.) Regardless, I smell a rip off.

In many auto shops the labor time is based on industry estimates, not the actual time spent. The estimates presume a competent mechanic in a proper shop. I'd ask this dealer to defend the amount of time it took. If its because his mechanic is slow or his mechanic boggered something up, well, that should be his problem not yours. Seriously, I'd press this guy hard. Until proven otherwise, I'd say you got ripped.

 

[CurlyDave]

What does your manual say is necessary for service ?

If hydraulic fluid change, checking valve lash, or torquing bolts isn't necessary, then he went overboard on the service.

Next time get an estimate.

Write to the manufacturer if you think he vastly overcharged you. I think labor should have been under $200, but if this is the only dealer nearby, you don't want to get him upset with you for $125. Just be very wary the next time.

 

[ovrszd]

I've already done my own 50 hour and I'm not a mechanic and spent a lot of time fiddling with fluids and reading the manual and it took me about 2 hours. Torquing the bolts requires about 30 minutes max, putting on a brush guard should be a 30 minute job and all that is for someone doing it for the first time and reading the manual as they go. Now, as for adjusting the valves, I wouldn't do it myself but two thoughts come to mind, one, a competent mechanic shouldn't require more than an hour and two, a new tractor shouldn't need it anyway. May manual requires it at something like 1000 hours.

You guys can defend that shop owner all you want but something smells _real_ fishy on this one. Five hours is ridiculous and the things he did are suspect (but, I don't actually know what the Farm Trac manual calls for.) Regardless, I smell a rip off.

In many auto shops the labor time is based on industry estimates, not the actual time spent. The estimates presume a competent mechanic in a proper shop. I'd ask this dealer to defend the amount of time it took. If its because his mechanic is slow or his mechanic boggered something up, well, that should be his problem not yours. Seriously, I'd press this guy hard. Until proven otherwise, I'd say you got ripped.

I'm not defending the mechanic either, just trying to be realistic. N80, in your comments above you clocked 5 hours. As for industry estimates, I know all about those. Industry estimates are always above actual time needed unless there is an abnormal problem. That's why they are written high, to cover that percentage of jobs that have those abnormal problems. As for the valve adjustment, engines that require manual adjustment almost always recommend the first adjustment during low hours, then the additional adjustments are spread out.

So again, bottom line, when you take your tractor, car, pickup, ATV, truck, whatever to a shop for service, expect to pay a premium price for that service. Because you certainly are going to expect premium service and will immediately complain over anything less. That's why the price is set at that rate. To cover those complaints.

 

[john_bud]

Took my Farmtrac 270 in to the dealer who I bought it from for 50-hour service earlier this week. All filters (hydraulic, fuel, oil) and fluids, including hydraulic, were changed. All nuts bolts torqued, including head bolts. Valve clearance checked. I also purchased a brush guard and had that installed. When I called to see what the bill was, my heart sank. All parts and fluids seemed to be priced within reason, however he wants $325 in labor.

At $65 hour, that's 5 hours labor. Even if I grant him one hour for the brush guard installation (4 bolts), would the work that remains actually take 4 hours? In an effort to be frugal I drove the tractor 3 miles there. Needless to say on top of labor above he whacked me $40 to deliver it home. He stated that since he has payments to make on his transportation equipment and costs for fuel he couldn’t make pick-ups and deliveries for free (OK, I understand that).

Finally the manual appears to call for hydraulic fluid change at 400 hours. I failed to consult the manual prior to work being done, assuming he would limit his work to what the factory calls for. Was the hydraulic fluid change unnecessary?

Next time I will determine what work I want done and communicate that to him before any wrenches are turned. Actually at these prices, next time I will do the work myself.

Well, we don't know what is needed to do the work of head bolts and valves on your tractor, but it could well be 2-3 hours. It all depends on how much stuff needs to be taken out of the way and then put back. In one way you got lucky, many dealers are upping the shop rate to $75 and some up to $90!

Your last line is pretty much where most of us either start or end up. Do the small stuff your self, and you will know the tractor better, you will know what the various fluids look, feel and smell like. You also will know where all the grease fittings are and will keep them full of grease.

Chalk it up as a learning experience. Then brag to the CFO about how much you are saving by doing the work yourself. Heck, you can buy a small air compressor, impact gun, or other nice tool on the "savings"!


jb

 

[firemanpat2910]

I dont see how these dealers can stay in business for $65.00 per hour. I was charging that 10 years ago. True it was on printing equiptment not tractors but my expences and theirs are close. Tools, electricity,supplies, someone to answer the phone,some one to order the parts, a bookkeeper, phone bill, frieght charges, labor, taxes, ect. ect. ect. my rates vary now from $129.00 per hour to $250.00 per hour, depending on the equipment and the distance from the shop. Travel charge is $30.00 for across the street to $125.00 for >100 miles. If they dont like it get some one else. Oh and I charge from the time I get in your shop until the time I leave. If I have to change chemistry or oil, your payin me to watch it drain.

 

[BTI]

Hard to compare a Kubota to a Farmtrac and vice-versa.

Reminds me of when I changed the Thermostat in 3 different cars.
I did mechanic work for extra money about 15yrs ago.

1st one 68 Cougar 302 Ford engine: (Drain fluid, Remove water neck, scrape both surfaces, install stat and gasket, button it back up) 30 mins Tops

2nd one 80 Olds Omega 2.5 Liter "Iron Duke" (unscrew cap, pull out stat drop in new, screw on cap) 5 mins Tops

3rd one 89 Buick Century 3.3 liter V-6 UGHHH. Stand on head in engine compartment to remove exhaust cross over pipe, bolts usually rust welded, remove stat housing etc, reinstall crossover. approx time 1 to 2 hrs.

Different brands, different times for the same repair.

The point I'm making is: No 2 different brands are alike.
It doesn't matter whether it needs or doesn't need to be done.
IF the manual says so then it needs done to comply with the warranty.

I agree that the amount MAY be excessive BUT I don't work on Farmtracs.

By the time you do everything that was supposed to be done then it may very well take that long.
Walking around a unit and greasing it CAN be time consuming, depending on brand.
Some have fitting under over and inside of the unit.
Others don't believe in grease fittings LOL.
"Time" is a hard thing to judge.
I know guys that can change oil in 10 mins, I know guys that take 30mins.
All are good mechanics, some just better at time management.
Go to different "fastfood" places. No 2 take the same amount of time to prepare an order.

BUT that is why I like to eat at home and do my own mechanic work.

Also remember, you can have a different mechanic do it, it just needs to be documented.

BTI