L805/L4060 real life lifting capacity

[houska]

Hi, I'm a near newbie buying my first tractor (got great general advice at my initial thread)

I'm now deciding between a L4060HST+LA805+BH92 combo versus a comparable Branson 4225H, which are surprisingly similarly priced where I'm at.

The biggest minus of the L4060 seems to be the lower, at least on paper, loader lifting capacity of 1715lbs vs 2700 for the Branson.
Can someone help me understand the real life lifting capacity of the LA805? Can you carry around a heaped bucket of wet gravel? An 8' long oak log in a grapple?

Idle thoughts:

• With the BH on, loaded rear wheels, I'll be 7000lb++, so I'm assuming it is the FEL capacity which is the limiting factor, not machine stability (I'm a newbie, tell me if this is wrong!)
• The LA805 is rated 1715lb, take away 400lbs for 72" HD bucket weight, so 1300 lbs at full height (and that's "at the pins", not levered out)
• ...which is less than a really heaped 15 cu ft of gravel at 100-125 pcf
• ...but I rarely need to lift to full height. How much more is the capacity to lift 2-4' off the ground?
• A 12" diam 8' red oak log is 400 lbs according to some online calculator. So a 16" is ~800, 24" (rare for me, but I have two lying right now) ~1600
• ....so feels like I need to make sure my grapple isn't too heavy, and I will be limited what kind of log I can lift to full height but probably much less so for lifting just 2-4' high

Do I have that right?

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if the 1715lbs versus 2700 on the Branson means something in real life.

 

[jeff9366]

VIDEO: Let's Talk: Loader LIES! How specifications can be manipulated. - YouTube

TractorData.com shows bare tractor weight of Branson 4225H as 4,153 pounds, for practical purposes identical to Kubota L4060.

The weight of the Branson Loader must be significantly heavier than the Kubota LA805, which is 1,279 pounds. It takes more steel to support incremental 1,000 pounds lift capacity.

This may be good or bad for your applications.

A factory Backhoe is always sufficient counterbalance.

The Branson would be superior if you need to unload fully laden pallets from a truck. Fully laden pallets sometimes weigh 2,000 pounds.

Kubota shows struck capacity of R-B, H-D bucket as 10.9 cu ft.

Kubota shows heaped capacity of R-B, H-D bucket as 13.1 cu ft.

If repetitive loader work is your key metric, do not discount how productivity enhancing the Grand L HST+ transmission is.

I move a lot of Oak tree trunks on SSQA pallet forks, not a grapple.

 

[houska]

VIDEO: Let's Talk: Loader LIES! How specifications can be manipulated. - YouTube
[...]
The weight of the Branson Loader must be significantly heavier than the Kubota LA805, which is 1,279 pounds. It takes more steel to support incremental 1,000 pounds lift capacity.
[...]
Kubota shows heaped capacity of R-B, H-D bucket as 13.1 cu ft.

If repetitive loader work is your key metric, do not discount how productive enhancing the Grand L HST+ transmission is.

Thanks Jeff. Appreciate the video, and also this related thread.
It does seem the Kubota and the Branson stated specs are at the same height, at the pins, so I don't think it's number manipulation, but it may be design choices. The Branson loader is about the same weight as the LA805.
I did find LA805 loader capacity also a) at 5' ht, and b) 500mm out. The 5' ht increases the load rating to 2202' which is reassuring (a significantly lesser increase than the LA525 on the L..01s it seems, however - interesting).
No fully laden pallets in my future, just different forms of wood and dirt

Can you say more about how the HST+ is productivity enhancing? I did watch Messick's video on it, but wasn't clear to me how many of those things actually matter for work in the woods and dirt piles. Both the Kubota HST+ and the Branson HydroMax have linked speed and throttle, which makes a ton of sense. I gather but am not sure the Branson doesn't have the purely-electronic automated speed overrides and anti-stall, but those feel like things you learn to do yourself anyway. Or maybe I misunderstood. (Ericm979 has commented on the hi/lo speed ranges in his reply in my other thread, still mulling that over and will hopefully try live.)

Thanks to all for advice.

 

[jeff9366]

The Branson loader is about the same weight as the LA805.

For a half ton greater lift capacity I would have expected the Branson FEL to weigh 600 (+/-) pounds additional.

Equal FEL weight of 1,715 lbs vs 2,700 lbs lift capacity loaders may be a comment on how conservative Kubota rates.


HST+ has many features and I presume each operator has favorite feature(s).

For my applications the HST+ half-range steps are #1. You can choose to have these half-range steps change automatically or manually. I like toggling in half-range steps manually as I work around a 40" deep burn pit regularly and do not wish to be surprised with a ratio change. In the photo, I could not have pulled stump from rear/center drawbar without HST+ LOW/LOW.

Second is Stall Guard. L3560 is my second new Kubota working same property. (I purchased too light the first time.) Doing Loader work I used to stall my antecedent Kubota B3300SU at least twice per hour, probably more. I go weeks without a stall with Stall Guard engaged. Its easy to forget Stall Guard because it operates deferentially in the background.

Third is ability to select speed of hydraulic response. I am old. I have hydraulic response set at 80% of normal. Works for me.

You have done careful research. You know about the Branson/TYM link. I suppose the worst case might be the most productive Branson/TYM dealers stay in business with TYM brand and the less productive/marginal dealers are eased out.

I am sure you will be happy with either Kubota or Branson.



Addendum: Kubota 0% financing.

If you elect 0% financing for six years and inflation stays around 2%, with compounding the effective price you pay for the tractor is reduced by 2% compounded; maybe 14% total?
(This assumes your compensation increases at least the Canadian inflation rate.)

Interest rate in Japan today, for ten year gov't money, is .019% per annum. Just about "free" money for Kubota.

 

[oosik]

You can get the real lift facts by looking at the lifting charts/graphs in the FEL Owners Manual. The "general info" listed in the spec sheets is usually at a point either 36" or even 48" forward of the lift/pivot pins and 48" off the ground. If this is what & where you will be "doing" it. Then these are the facts.

The center of my grapple is 12" forward of the lift/pivot pins and I NEVER lift a truly heavy load more that 6" off the ground. This makes a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE in the FEL's abilities to lift.

Don't just go by what is listed in the tractors general specs. Look at the FEL lifting charts. Know what you plan on doing. Will you be lifting a round bale to six feet. Like me, will you be lifting & moving a basaltic lava boulder the size of an office desk to a new location. If so - who really cares whether or not I can lift this 3000# boulder to a height of seven feet.

I grab it with the grapple - get it 4" to 6" off the ground and GO. Same with a large chunk of my ancient Ponderosa pines.

Besides - if you plan on helping the Egyptians build another pyramid - you are going to need an H**L of a lot more tractor.

 

[Jchonline]

Have you demoed these machines yet? My suggestion is to go and demo them. Mimic some of the tasks you will be performing on your property (without actually loading the bucket, etc). Get familiar with the HST+ on the Kubota and HST features on the Branson. See what fits you better (arm reach, foot pedals, seat, remotes, etc). Actuate the loader and HST front/reverse. See how tight they turn. Something will stand out.

 

[k0ua]

"I am planning on building another pyramid over in Egypt. What tractor and loader should I get?" Now that right there is funny.

I don't know if you caught the bit about just increasing the loader lift cylinder diameter to increase lift, but they will come at the price of speed to lift the load unless the hydraulic pump is made larger. There is another price to think about too. If you buy a tractor with really high lift capacity, and you actually use it near capacity for a long period of time, were the front axles, and bearings sized to stand that kind of service all the time?. Good question, or was the maximum lift number foremost in the engineer's/marketing department's mind? Just things to think and ponder over. In your case, I think either tractor will work fine for you. HST+ from Kubota is a really cool tranny though... Lots of features to make you life easier and the job go quicker.

 

[LD1]

2000# to a modest height is gonna be no issue with the Kubota loader IMO. It's real similar to my la844 loader.

A loader, because of geometry, has greatest lift capacity are ground level. And capacity is reduced with height. The curve is actually published in the manual but you won't find it online.

Instead....they give you Max height. And if you want the ground level number look at the breakout force. That gives you your min and Max. And at some lift height in-between, capacity is gonna be somewhere in-between.

 

[LD1]

Just looked. Only 300 pounds different in breakout force.

Me thinks the Branson number of 2700 might be a little inflated?

Especially when you see the lift cylinders are only slightly larger diameter. 55 mm vs 50 mm. But some of that gain with a fatter cylinder is offset by a shorter stroke. 455 mm vs 520mm for the Kubota.

In the real world, there is probably very little difference in what they can and cannot do

 

[k0ua]

In the real world, there is probably very little difference in what they can and cannot do

The HST+ transmission would make a lot more difference to me. I would buy the orange one.