Kubota vs. Deere vs. Case vs. New Holland

[nola000]

Hi!

Im new to this forum and to heavy machinery/tractors.

Im in the research phases of buying a used multipurpose tractor with a hydrostatic tranny, 4WD, a FEL and if possible a backhoe and a cab. At first I was looking at full sized TLBs but realize I cant trailer a 14,000lb machine, then I looked at compact TLBs and realized I might need something that is more flexible in its use. So now Im thinking that a utility tractor larger than 30hp and lighter than 6,000lbs(when I can afford to put a backhoe on it) might be what I need. In the near future my needs would be clearing woods, leveling and adding to gravel driveway, digging stumps and trenching but in the far off future it might involve homestead farming tasks as well, make shift engine lift, digging ponds, sifting compost and other odd jobs.

Ive been pounding tractorhouse.com and dont see any >30hp tractors with both a front end loader AND a backhoe in my price range(<$15,000) but Im guessing that in a pinch I can trench and dig stumps with the front end loader. I have all the time in the world. Im wondering how I would go about clearing-out woods(thick Gulf Coast overgrowth) with an FEL without a grapple. I dont see any available right now with a grapple bucket or root rake and I dont want to jump on one just cause it has that attachment. I would rather get the "tractor of my dreams" and then add a root rake later, even if it means my new(to me at least) tractor sits in the yard and collects dust until I have the money for a root rake/grapple attachment.

So I guess my first question is, can I clear land with a tractor and a basic FEL? And by clear, I dont mean bush hog. I want to tear up any and all roots, till the top soil with my motorized hand tiller and spread seed to have a nice lawn. Im under the impression that a bush hog just chews everything up and leaves the roots. I was thinking that for now I could drill out the edge of the bucket and attach a tooth bar to dig up the brush by the roots until I can afford a proper grapple/root rake.

My real question and why I started the thread, is...
I made a spread sheet comparing a bunch of different models of tractor on the market right now so that I could make sense of all the different specs. I frequently read great things about both Deere and Kubota but I noticed that once I did the spreadsheet that Kubota's front end loaders were way behind the competition in capacity and hydraulic pump flow. Behind everybody, Deere, New Holland and Case. Is this a concern or is the difference negligible?

Here is an example...

John Deere 4120 (400x/400cx FEL)

1. HP: 43
2. :thumbsup::shocked: Pump Flow: 17.1
3. :thumbsup: FEL Breakout: 3509
4. :thumbsup: FEL Lift: 2354

Case DX40 (LX116)

1. HP: 40
2. :thumbsup: Pump Flow: 14.9
3. :thumbsup:FEL Breakout: 3540
4. FEL Lift: 2000

New Holland TC35D (16LA)

1. HP: 35
2. :thumbsup: Pump Flow: 14.9
3. :thumbsup: FEL Breakout: 3186
4. FEL Lift: 1800

Kubota L3830 (LA513)

1. HP: 37.4
2. :thumbdown: Pump Flow: 13.2
3. :thumbdown: FEL Breakout: 2160
4. :thumbdown: FEL Lift: 1345

John Deere 4400 (430)

1. HP: 35.7
2. :thumbdown: Pump Flow: 13.3
3. :thumbsup::shocked: FEL Breakout: 3299
4. FEL Lift: 1258

Kubota L3430 (LA723)

1. HP: 35
2. :thumbdown: Pump Flow: 13.2
3. :thumbdown: FEL Breakout: 2605
4. :thumbdown: FEL Lift: 1870

I really want that Kubota L3430 because its got a cab which would really come in handy in my area of the country but when I can get that Deere 4120 for the same price with 8 more HP, almost 4 more GPM, 35% more breakout force and 26% more lifting force Im wondering if Im really going to miss that Kubota cab or if all that extra John Deere power isnt going to really make much difference in the grand scheme of things. Is 2160lbs of breakout force enough when all other comparable machines are running 3200+? It makes me wonder if Kubota didnt under-spec their loaders.

Opinions anyone?

 

[murphy1244]

Go buy a Kioti DK-40or a 45 with cab and Backhoe and be dun with it. 2750Lbs of lift!:thumbsup:

 

[nola000]

Closest dealer is 64 miles away and its over 30,000 grand.

Just checked the used listings. Nothing in my price bracket. Those are really bad *** tractors, btw

 

[TSO]

First of all, you're gonna have a real difficult time finding a decent HST machine with FEL and backhoe for $15k.

But, if your looking for these in this size, then you should probably stick with either JD or Kubota. They both make a true TLB (Tractor Loader Backhoe) with better hydraulics & strength.

Look for a Kubota L35 or Deere 110.

A run of the mill compact tractor with an add on backhoe won't be as good as a dedicated TLB.

Good luck!

 

[jenkinsph]

Hi!

Im new to this forum and to heavy machinery/tractors.

Im in the research phases of buying a used multipurpose tractor with a hydrostatic tranny, 4WD, a FEL and if possible a backhoe and a cab. At first I was looking at full sized TLBs but realize I cant trailer a 14,000lb machine, then I looked at compact TLBs and realized I might need something that is more flexible in its use. So now Im thinking that a utility tractor larger than 30hp and lighter than 6,000lbs(when I can afford to put a backhoe on it) might be what I need. In the near future my needs would be clearing woods, leveling and adding to gravel driveway, digging stumps and trenching but in the far off future it might involve homestead farming tasks as well, make shift engine lift, digging ponds, sifting compost and other odd jobs.

Ive been pounding tractorhouse.com and dont see any >30hp tractors with both a front end loader AND a backhoe in my price range(<$15,000) but Im guessing that in a pinch I can trench and dig stumps with the front end loader. I have all the time in the world. Im wondering how I would go about clearing-out woods(thick Gulf Coast overgrowth) with an FEL without a grapple. I dont see any available right now with a grapple bucket or root rake and I dont want to jump on one just cause it has that attachment. I would rather get the "tractor of my dreams" and then add a root rake later, even if it means my new(to me at least) tractor sits in the yard and collects dust until I have the money for a root rake/grapple attachment.

So I guess my first question is, can I clear land with a tractor and a basic FEL? And by clear, I dont mean bush hog. I want to tear up any and all roots, till the top soil with my motorized hand tiller and spread seed to have a nice lawn. Im under the impression that a bush hog just chews everything up and leaves the roots. I was thinking that for now I could drill out the edge of the bucket and attach a tooth bar to dig up the brush by the roots until I can afford a proper grapple/root rake.

My real question and why I started the thread, is...
I made a spread sheet comparing a bunch of different models of tractor on the market right now so that I could make sense of all the different specs. I frequently read great things about both Deere and Kubota but I noticed that once I did the spreadsheet that Kubota's front end loaders were way behind the competition in capacity and hydraulic pump flow. Behind everybody, Deere, New Holland and Case. Is this a concern or is the difference negligible?

Here is an example...

John Deere 4120 (400x/400cx FEL)

1. HP: 43
2. :thumbsup::shocked: Pump Flow: 17.1
3. :thumbsup: FEL Breakout: 3509
4. :thumbsup: FEL Lift: 2354

Case DX40 (LX116)

1. HP: 40
2. :thumbsup: Pump Flow: 14.9
3. :thumbsup:FEL Breakout: 3540
4. FEL Lift: 2000

New Holland TC35D (16LA)

1. HP: 35
2. :thumbsup: Pump Flow: 14.9
3. :thumbsup: FEL Breakout: 3186
4. FEL Lift: 1800

Kubota L3830 (LA513)

1. HP: 37.4
2. :thumbdown: Pump Flow: 13.2
3. :thumbdown: FEL Breakout: 2160
4. :thumbdown: FEL Lift: 1345

John Deere 4400 (430)

1. HP: 35.7
2. :thumbdown: Pump Flow: 13.3
3. :thumbsup::shocked: FEL Breakout: 3299
4. FEL Lift: 1258

Kubota L3430 (LA723)

1. HP: 35
2. :thumbdown: Pump Flow: 13.2
3. :thumbdown: FEL Breakout: 2605
4. :thumbdown: FEL Lift: 1870

I really want that Kubota L3430 because its got a cab which would really come in handy in my area of the country but when I can get that Deere 4120 for the same price with 8 more HP, almost 4 more GPM, 35% more breakout force and 26% more lifting force Im wondering if Im really going to miss that Kubota cab or if all that extra John Deere power isnt going to really make much difference in the grand scheme of things. Is 2160lbs of breakout force enough when all other comparable machines are running 3200+? It makes me wonder if Kubota didnt under-spec their loaders.

Opinions anyone?

About your spread sheet make sure you separate the available hydraulic flow and psi from the total flow which includes the steering. The 4120 for instance has an available flow of about 12 gpm (for fel and remotes), who cares what the steering flow is. I can't remember any threads where members are complaining about steering issues so remove that from the mix.

Second, an agricultural fel is sturdy but it isn't as well built as a commercial backhoe or tlb with fixed attachment. None of them are anywhere close to a dozer obviously. There is more to it than the lift specs such as when the fel snags a root on the edge of the bucket.

I don't follow your thinking about the tlb being less flexible in its use. I find the tlb to be more flexible with better hydraulics front and rear, same 3ph capacity in most cases and the backhoe operation and capability is much better than the ag tractor add ons. You will see that the pto hp is a little less on a tlb because the larger hydraulic pumps use up some of the gross hp. The downside to a tlb is that the additional heavy duty parts make them more expensive. As an example my Deere 110tlb (43hp) cost a lot more than my 4520(60hp).

Consider all the brands available to you, as Murphy points out the Kioti DK40 or 45 might be another choice.

 

[LD1]

There is a pretty big physical size difference between some of them tractors. Like the 3430 and Deere 4120. But when shopping the used market, makes it really hard to keep comparisons apples to apples. And when it comes to lots of ground clearing, stumps, roots, etc. A compact tractor and fel wouldn't be my equipment of choice. And definataly not for trenching anything.

Have you looked at the tlb's used? Not sure what's out there used, but ones like the Deere 110, or Kubota l39, l45, or l48?? They will have much stronger loaders and hoes than their 40hp compact tractor counterparts.

And you mentioned trailering. How often do you plan on hauling it around??

 

[arlen4720]

Allot of good advice here, so all I can add is that I have a JD 4720 and I like it. Of the tractors that you mention, I don't THINK that any of them have a self leveling loader except the JD 400cx. That may or may not be important to you. I didn't catch how much property that you want to clear, or how big of brush that your talking about. If the brush is reasonably small, a "Ratchet Rake" would be a cheap way to use your fel. I have cleared allot of land with a bush hog and grapple. If you keep mowing brush off it will die and rot. Just depends on how much of a hurry your in.
I wouldn't want to do much clearing with just an FEL.

Like Jenkinsph said, the 4x20's has 12 GPM implement pump flow, which is still substantially higher than most CUTs.

 

[94BULLITT]

I'd rather have a smaller cab tractor than a larger open station tractor.

 

[jeff9366]

My first question is, can I clear land with a tractor and a basic FEL? And by clear, I dont mean bush hog. I want to tear up any and all roots, till the top soil with my motorized hand tiller and spread seed to have a nice lawn. Im under the impression that a bush hog just chews everything up and leaves the roots. I was thinking that for now I could drill out the edge of the bucket and attach a tooth bar to dig up the brush by the roots until I can afford a proper grapple/root rake.

The answer to this question is a DEFINITE MAYBE, since you have TIME.

I have three years non-commercial experience clearing Florida jungle, composed generally of wild grape vines, wild climbing rose, Virginia creeper, Smilax, Carolina Jasmine and assorted other vines running through sandy-loam soil and climbing desirable trees, loading the trees until they are pulled down. Did I mention Palmettos?

I began clearing with a used John Deere/Yanmar 750, found it too small and found I needed an FEL, so I bought a new Kubota B3300SU light frame tractor/loader and started to accumulate 5' to 6' implements and attachments. Worked B3300SU 400 hours but determined for productivity and safety reasons this rig was too small/light too. (If you have one or two tractor wheels off the ground regularly, sooner or later you are going to have an accident.)

Sold the B3300SU and bought a new Kubota L3560 heavy frame tractor/loader, which has heavy LA805 FEL paired with L2296 Heavy Duty (495 pound) bucket. This combo has the weight to make tearing up jungle practical, if still a slow task. It is a slow task not because of the equipment but because of the huge volume of material which has to be disposed of as jungle is cleared. Fortunately, I can burn, so material is hauled to a burn pile in the middle of a one acre bare dirt area, stacked, allowed to dry a few days, then ignited with a propane torch. Collecting the debris is slow, hauling takes time, consolidating the burn pile both hot and cold takes time and burning safely requires supervision. Periodically, root dirt has to be reverse transported or the burn 'pile' grows.

(I Disc Harrow the burn pile field periodically, to maintain bare dirt.)

Generally I start by pulling Rotundfolia grape vines and climbing roses out of the trees. Primary attachment is a Ratchet Rake strapped to the bucket, which does a good job of holding vines while I back the tractor. For 3"+ vines I use 5/16" Grade 70 chain attached to rear center drawbar. I have twice pulled trees over when the vines would not release, so caution is important. I chip the largest vines, which is kind of fun, like slurping spaghetti, then scoop up everything else with Debris Forks on the bucket and transport to the burn pile.

During clearing, I have 60" Rollover Box Blade on the 3-Pt hitch as essential ballast. When I discover vine nodes, where a group of vines emerge from the soil, I drop the ROBB rippers and drag the vines on surface and 6" underground. More debris, wet.

Next I 'hog the area with a 5' Land Pride RCF2060 Rotary Cutter, 2" rated. To get through dense growth I need the Ratchet Rake on the bucket, near ground level to detect obstacles, (can't see at all, sometimes), work the bucket up and down as necessary to progress in HST/LOW pulling the roaring cutter. Have to be mindful vegetation ropes moving over the tractor do not snatch the controls. I keep loppers on board; sometimes have to stop and cut the operator's station free.

Then I clamp a $400 Bucket Solutions' Bucket Spade (110 pounds) to the bucket and dig out junk trees, junk palms, palmettos and wild rose corms. Now the ground is "open" but still littered. I use the Debris Forks to consolidate debris and transport-----you know where. Finally, I fork light debris with a pitchfork.

Next I use a Disk Harrow with 18" diameter notched pans to till, to disrupt roots. I generally make two or three passes with the harrow, getting deeper with each pass. (A Disc Harrow with 20" diameter notched pans would be considerably more effective.)

Then I use a 6' (Temporarily blocked due to reports of company closure) (ETA) Landscape Rake, usually with gauge wheels, to get the area acceptably level and fill holes. Then I sow deer and wild turkey food plots and roll in seed with a ETA Cultipacker.

Some stuff grows back, grape vines, wild climbing rose and Virginia Creeper being pernicious. For two years I used a two-gallon hand sprayer filled with Tractor Supply strong, generic, 2,4-D or 41% Glycophosphate with mixed success because two to four applications were required. Now I am experimenting with Bayer Advanced Brush Killer Plus, which specifically lists grape and wild rose as targets. I hope for one application kill.

(I consider these "residential" sprays hazardous. I wear a hat, long pants, long sleeves, safety glasses; spray, then shower and put on clean clothes. I have a careless relative, a smoker, who required hospitalization from exposure to Roundup.)

I calculate the cost of running my tractor, implements and attachments, at a minimum of $26 per hour. It requires 150 tractor engine hours per acre, plus many more man hours, to clear trees, prep land and burn debris.

 

[jenkinsph]

jeff,
Clearing land in the deep south is an ongoing battle for sure, btdt. Hope you win and be safe. I grew up in New Orleans and my family had a few pieces of property in Louisiana and Mississippi, I well remember as a teen having to clear the land and fence rows that were overgrown every summer. Having a dozer helped some but the hand work can be a huge challenge.