kubota/kioti backhoe question

[deerhunter1]

I am looking at either a kioti or kubota tractor with a backhoe. my question is, the kubota back hoe uses the tractor seat but the kioti backhoe has it's own seat. is there any advantages/disadvatages between the 2 types?

 

[dfkrug]

Tractors that are designed to be well-integrated with a backhoe (aka
TLBs) will generally use the same seat, which is swiveled or tipped over
to switch positions. The same seat is used because the hoe is installed
very close in to the back of the tractor. For other tractors with
backhoe attachments (even with subframes), a second seat is used
because the hoe builder makes their attachment for a variety of machines.
In the first case (TLBs), you have only one hoe that will fit the tractor.

A TLB does do a better job digging, vs a same size/weight general purpose
tractor with a hoe attachment.

 

[IslandTractor]

All of the third party backhoes like Woods, Rhino etc come with their own seat. Most tractors made by Kubota use the backhoe seat rather than an integrated dual purpose seat. The exceptions that I know about for Kubota are the BX23/24/25 lineup and the true TLBs B26 L39 M59 etc. To my knowledge none of the other L class, B class or M class Kubotas have swiveling dual purpose seats. Someone may correct me.

I don't know if any of the older Kioti's had dual purpose seats but all of the CK and DK class tractors produced now would use a separate seat on the backhoe.

TLBs may do a better job digging but usually because they mount larger backhoes not for any other reason. The trade off is that they give up 3pt flexibility (usually) and sometimes PTO power. They also tend to be made with non removable FELs though that varies.

Bottom line is that if something is built as a TLB rather than as a CUT then it is reasonable to use a dual purpose seat. Most CUTs are designed as tractors first and therefore things like fuel tanks, tool boxes or 3PT apparatus gets in the way of using a swivel seat. I don't see the advantage of the swivel seat myself.

 

[dfkrug]

TLBs may do a better job digging but usually because they mount larger backhoes not for any other reason. The trade off is that they give up 3pt flexibility (usually) and sometimes PTO power.

The TLBs that use only one seat are better diggers vs an equivalent
weight/size non-integrated tractor/hoe is because they have a closer-
coupled hoe to the center-of-gravity of the tractor. They use a more
substantial mounting frame and attachment, too. Also better departure
angle for ground clearance. Incidentally, the TLBs also have more hyd
flow available to the hoe. Again, I stated that the sizes and weights
matched for comparison purposes.

As for the ergonomics of a single seat, I found it to be of no value on my
B21, since you had to fully dismount the tractor to rotate and move it.
On a Case 580, however, the swivel action is very useful and productive.
The JD 110 flops over, and I gotta wonder how well that works, but I have
no experience there.

True, the 580 has no 3-pt, but the JD110, B26, L45, etc, all have 3-pts.

 

[deerhunter1]

so the differences are not signifigant. thank you for your help. any preference to one brand or the other on the small compact tractors?

 

[CurlyDave]

The JD 110 flops over, and I gotta wonder how well that works, but I have
no experience there.

It is crowded, cramped and awkward, but it beats dismounting and re-mounting in the other seat.

so the differences are not signifigant

I think there is a significant difference, at least in a few. I know my JD 110 allows operation of the tractor from the backhoe position of the seat. I haven't seen them up close, but I think the M59 and maybe even the M43 from Kubota both offer this feature as well. On the L39s, it was possible to turn around in the seat and diddle the throttle with a cane (I don't recommend this, but there are TBN threads on it.

Do not underestimate the convenience of this feature. I once trenched over 100' through the woods, on fairly steep hill without ever getting out of the seat.

Another difference is that with a "real" TLB it is common to pick up the back of the machine by pushing down with the hoe bucket. This is very useful for repositioning the machine, or for crossing a trench. I don't have any experience with the add-on hoes but I am skeptical that this would be a recommended maneuver.

 

[Gittyup]

I don't doubt that true TLB's are better at what they do and have some conveniences and advantages. But, I just want to add that I can reach the throttle from my frame-mount hoe seat, and if I leave the loader up I can lift the tractor with the hoe and push it forward. While the tractor seems to do this with ease, I don't do it as a matter of practice and do agree it's probably not good for the equipment, especially with a tractor as heavy as mine. But, it will do it.

What I found was that machines like the B26 and L39 were several thousand more $ than my Kioti TLB setup. And since I mainly was looking for the best performing backhoe/loader for the money, the Kioti really stood out as "better" than all the rest in it's size (30 hp or less). But, was I ever drooling over that L39. Just couldn't swing the price.

 

[Carl_NH]

Echoing the other responses there are significant differences - I have had both types.

Ground Clearance - TLB's have more due to the integrated frame vs subframe attached

Ease of Use - As stated due to the close coupled seat and controls you can move FWD/REV to reposition without gettting off the BH and on the two seat units the controls are typically out of reach.

(No Offense dfkrug -I have the B21 and 6'3" and while off/on is typical I can swivel the seat w/o getting off as well move the unit around with the F/R hydro controls from the BH position - my arms are 36" tho)

Postives to the dedicated TLB units - more capabilty lift/digging pound/pound, higher flow Hyd, higher cooling and hydraulic capacity, ground clearance, manueverabilty, R&R of the BH, shorter O/A length, ROPS with Rigid canopy or cab.

Negatives to the dedicated TLB - Fixed mount FEL, no MM mower, Fixed ROPS and canopy (need 8'+ clearance doors) - none others that I can think of..

Regarding Kioti I dont know enough about their specific models to comment tho I am sure there are plenty here that can.

At the end of the day it depends on what you need and will do with the unit that should drive your decision.

 

[dfkrug]

On the L39s, it was possible to turn around in the seat and diddle the throttle with a cane (I don't recommend this, but there are TBN threads on it.

Do not underestimate the convenience of this feature. I once trenched over 100' through the woods, on fairly steep hill without ever getting out of the seat.

Another difference is that with a "real" TLB it is common to pick up the back of the machine by pushing down with the hoe bucket. This is very useful for repositioning the machine, or for crossing a trench. I don't have any experience with the add-on hoes but I am skeptical that this would be a recommended maneuver.

For the L39 (no HST), you don't have the FWD and REV pedals that HSTs
have. I use a rod to reach the pedals to move an HST tractor when
trenching.

You bring up an additional TLB advantage, Dave. The engine speed control
for the integrated TLBs is usually near the right fender, accessible while
driving OR operating the hoe. This is such a useful feature that I moved
the control from the dash to the rt of the seat on my Kioti.

You made another good pt, which I agree with: the integrated TLBs have
so much better hoe subframes (mainframes) that repositioning the whole
tractor with the hoe is less likely to hurt the tractor. I have tried it with
hoe attachments that use subframes and I get more flex than I did with
my B21.

 

[Patches]

I am looking at either a kioti or kubota tractor with a backhoe. my question is, the kubota back hoe uses the tractor seat but the kioti backhoe has it's own seat. is there any advantages/disadvatages between the 2 types?

You should look at the LK30 TLB Kioti in your travels. 30HP, 12.5GPM hydraulic flow, a tightly mounted backhoe,(easily removable) and 3PH/PTO capabilities. The major drawback to this machine, for some, is no HST available