Kioti LK3054 Flashing Voltage Dash Lamp

[retiredfarmer]

Dave, will do.
Thx,
RF

 

[K5lwq]

After a few test, it appears my problem will be on the positive side of the system. I show a good ground connection but have a fluctuating voltage drop on the positive side. My thought is one of the wires is breaking down. It is trying to rain here so I am not able to determine which wire is the issue or if it is just a connection issue.

Funny thing is after I did my test the light has stopped flashing. :laughing:

 

[retiredfarmer]

K5,
Thx for the update.
RF

 

[Dave M7040]

Dave,
The parts manual I have does not show a diode in-line or a relay. I am looking for a Shop Manual for the tractor now though.
RF

Kioti is a hard tractor to find free WSM's for.

Although I do not have a Kioti, I have bought two WSM from this on line site in order to help people.
I found the materials of excellent quality, not fuzzy photocopied pages.

The cost is $9.99 and you get an immediate download.
If you are unhappy with what you get they say they will refund the money.

Kioti LK30 Tractor Service Manual PDF Download

DENSO is a major world wide manufacturer of vehicle electrical components. It was formerly Nippondenso and owned by Toyota.

Now you find their products in, for example, a Buick where previously it was all Delco.

This is a link to one of their on line documents. The tests they suggest are easy if you have a voltmeter. Google DENSO troubleshooting and you will find other material.

http://densoautoparts.com/Portals/D...ENSO charging system troubleshooting tips.pdf

Dave M7040

 

[retiredfarmer]

Dave,
Thx.
RF

 

[retiredfarmer]

Could it be that the alternator does not "self energize" until 1900 RPMs? I seem to remember from replacing generators with GM 10SI alternators on old tractors that you needed to run a wire to energize the field otherwise it would not start charging until about 2000 RPMs. I am starting to wonder if there is an energizing wire from the ignition that is not doing it's job any longer.

I still need to complete the tests between the alternator and regulator for voltage. I have not forgotten about these. I have not had the time to get to them yet. I appreciate everyone's input and will post these results when I do the tests.

RF

 

[Kioti Paul]

Generators "self energized" in order to close the "reverse voltage" relay; which was the only way to keep the generator from "running as an electric motor" when the battery voltage was higher than the generator voltage. They used a 'mechanical' rectifier (ie the commutator) to convert AC to DC, and there was no (convenient) way to prevent the battery from draining through the generator once the engine was shut off. Their armature was a heavy 'block' of steel, which would retain residual magnetism, and when spun fast enough would induce enough voltage into the field windings to close the relay.

Alternators use solid state rectifiers (diodes) which electronically prevent "backfeed". Their field windings are what spin, and they are light enough that they will not impart significant voltage into the armature windings, which is a moot point as there is no need for a "reverse voltage" relay anyway. They require an external source of voltage (battery / jumper cables) in order to begin charging. It does not need 12 volts, just 2 or 3 volts to begin charging.

Typically, alternators can develop somewhere around 1/3 of their rated amperage at idle, and reach full amperage around 1,200 / 1,500 (engine) RPM.

Besides, I thought your problem was that it was overcharging??? (15.36 volts)

 

[retiredfarmer]

The original problem was the voltage dash lamp blinking, and was subsequently found to stop blinking when the RPMs were raised above 1900.

RF

 

[retiredfarmer]

Voltage on the battery with lights on at 1500RPM = 14.36V.

Now, with the multimeter set to VDC 200m red lead on alternator housing and black on regulator housing bolt to tractor the reading fluctuates between 1.0 to 3.0. On the 20V setting the reading stays at 0.

I知 not sure what the difference is btn the 200m and 20V setting.

RF

 

[Dave M7040]

Voltage on the battery with lights on at 1500RPM = 14.36V.

Now, with the multimeter set to VDC 200m red lead on alternator housing and black on regulator housing bolt to tractor the reading fluctuates between 1.0 to 3.0. On the 20V setting the reading stays at 0.

I知 not sure what the difference is btn the 200m and 20V setting.

RF

I assume your multimeter looks like this one.

For your purposed, you should only be using the 20V setting.

The other settings are for tiny fractions of a volt as used in electronics.
Using those settings will just confuse you, Likely, if on those millivolt settings, you hold one lead in a hand and touch the other to your foot you will get a reading.

The Zero reading on the 20 volt scale is good news for the voltage drop test you are doing.

Dave M7040

 

[retiredfarmer]

Thank you Dave.

Next I need to read up on the cub cadet dash lamp fault.

RF

 

[Kioti Paul]

I agree with Dave that a reading of .001 - .003 volt is just "background noise". I was not as specific as I should have been earlier, but I was thinking that a few tenths of a volt drop would be significant, I did not realize your meter had that small of a scale.

From your reading now (14.36), it seems your charging system is operating properly. I cannot think of a reason why your dash light flashes, then stops at 1900 RPM. Was the light flashing while you were getting the latest voltage reading? If your dash light still is flashing, does your voltage readings fluctuate (in the same "rhythm" as the flashing)?? With the dash light flashing (and work lights off) you might try checking for any AC (~) voltage across the battery (maybe a diode has gone bad??) If 200 v is the smallest scale, it may not be sensitive enough.

Anyway, from my understanding of charging systems, (and not specific to Kioti), I do not think an open diode would cause the dash light to come on,,, so I guess I am all out of ideas. Sorry I couldn't help, but I bet someone on this site will come up with a fix (lots of experience here!)

 

[retiredfarmer]

Paul,
I thank you for your help.

I am wondering about alternators and energizing of the field (?). On the Case 580 I have, the voltage light comes on when I start it until I rev the engine above 2000rpm then the light stays off.

RF

 

[Dave M7040]

This usually indicates a patch up alternator installation not (OEM), likely a Delco, which uses the warning light circuit to turn on the alternator.

Dave M7040

 

[Kioti Paul]

RF,

Right up front, I have no knowledge at all about what alternator / regulator Case uses, or how they are wired; but I feel confident that what is happening is the residual magnetism in the rotator is finally building up enough voltage (at 2000 RPM) that it can excite the field circuit. As Dave says, this is very common on "after market" (or add on alternator kits). These are commonly called "1 wire alternators" for the very simple wiring required (just 1 wire from the battery to the alternator) these alternators all have the regulator built in. The draw back to that is that there is no exciter circuit, which very often requires high RPM's to get it to begin charging; after which it should continue charging regardless of engine speed. Sometimes you can lower the "kick in" RPM by 'flashing' the rotor (field circuit), which magnetises the rotor as strongly as possible (as practical). The way to do that depends on what alternator you have.

If this is a Case factory charging system, then you have a bad regulator, or wiring to the regulator, as I can't imagine that a factory would not wire in an exciter circuit.

edit: since (I just recalled) you remarked about the "voltage light" - I ***-u-me it is the "factory light", so since it is still 'wired in', I am going to guess that we are talking about the factory installed charging system???

 

[retiredfarmer]

Yes. This tractor still has all the factory parts and wiring. I致e checked what I can. The battery voltage is staying at 14.36v while this light is flashing. It stops flashing as soon as I turn on the headlights and thereby add a load to the system. For now I am just running the tractor with the headlights on, so I do not potentially start an electrical fire using the tractor.

 

[retiredfarmer]

So, I finally dug into this issue a bit more. The ignition switch stopped working and I ordered another OEM switch and it did the same thing.

This led me to unwrap the wiring harness and run the wires to the switch and follow them. Somehow, down by the starter, two wires in the bundle were without insulation and shorting. Seems like at some point they were rubbing on something and the previous owner just wrapped them together with electrical tape. Well, they found each other and were shorting. I fixed this. But it did not cure the voltage lamp blinking.

The headlights are now alternating between bright and dim. I just put a new voltage regulator on the tractor, so I started looking at the alternator.....
Voltage test with multimeter showed 14.8-15.7V off the battery post to ground with the tractor running. 12.8-13.5V tractor running with the lights on. I pulled the alternator off and took it to the auto parts store to get it checked. At $250 for a new OEM alternator, I wanted to ensure it needed replaced.

There was no cross references to a Kioti or Mando alternator in order to check it on their machine. The guy behind the counter swore he just sold one that looked just like it though. He looked through the recent sales and pulled up an alternator for a 1979 Mazda B2000 truck on their computer. It looked identical, and was $56. We put my old alternator on their diagnostic machine and it failed, putting out 30.56V I had him order one of the Mazda truck alternators and we will compare them tomorrow.

 

[K5lwq]

Let us know how it works out. Hopefully that will solve the issues.

 

[retiredfarmer]

Issues solved.

The Generic direct replacement alternator for a Kioti LK3054 is the alternator for a 1979 Mazda B2000 pick-up. Same exact alternator down to the 4 pole pigtail plug.

 

[K5lwq]

That is great news!