Kioti CK2610 or CK3510SE vs Massey Ferguson 1739e

[FredTractor]

I have been researching compact tractors for a few months. I am in southern Ontario Canada and have about 30 acres of woodlot, cut firewood for personal use, have 70 acres workable (contract most of this out) but will be fixing tile drains and have uses for a backhoe. Will be doing some snow removal but we don't get much snow here. I have looked at all the major brands, JD, Kubota, LS and Yanmar. The two dealers I like the best carry the Kioti and the Massey. The Massey is 39 HP but is a more of an economy tractor. The loader lift capacity is about 600 lbs less than both the Kioti's. So I am likely to go with one of the Kioti's. I am interested in anyone's experience with the diesel particulate filters with these two brands in the smaller compacts. I am planning on keeping this tractor for at least 20 years. The CK2610 at 26 HP does not have the environmental computer and filter system so it is about $5000 less expensive. But I am giving up about 10HP. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[jeff9366]

A CK2510 has a bare tractor weight of ~~2,260 pounds.
Backhoe + Backhoe bucket adds 1,200 pounds. FEL with bucket adds 605 pounds. Fuel + lubricants and a few tools add 200 pounds. Options: ~~2,005 pounds.
4,265 pounds total.
There is only so much 25-horsepower can do.

The two (2) range HST transmission a CK2610 equipped with a Loader and Backhoe and 25-horsepower engine will be very, very slow ascending hills, if you have hills. Traveling 30 level acres will be slow.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential landscaping or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres.

You omitted the alternative Kioti model under consideration.

I am planning on keeping this tractor for 20 years.

In my opinion you are shopping too light. At minimum shop the DK series at ~~3,373 pounds bare tractor weight and a three-range (3) HST (Lower LOW, Higher, HIGH) rather than two-range (2) HST.

Heavier tractors are constructed on larger frames and longer wheelbases. Greater inertia of heavier tractors make them more stable during FEL and Backhoe operation. Heavier tractors are built with thicker steel to withstand greater stress. Heavier tractors with large diameter wheels/tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less operator perturbation.

As you age you may wish you had purchased a de luxe Kioti rather than an economy Kioti. Plan ahead.

I am interested in experiences with diesel particulate filters in compact tractors.

Tier IV emission controls and DPFs began to phase in ten years ago. Old news in 2019.

Consensus is DPF problems are 90% caused by operators who do not carefully read regeneration procedures in Operator's Manual or refuse to follow the procedures. Most small property users regenerate just once per year. This creates regeneration uncertainty in itself. (Regeneraton occurs around every 60 engine hours in warm Florida. Non-commercial users average 80 engine hours per year.)

Operator Manuals for DPF equipped compact tractors do a poor job of explaining DPFs and a poor job of explaining regeneration cycles. Most manuals do not inform that filter soot accumulates faster during low weather temperatures, none inform time required for DPF to attain 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit, the ignition temperature for diesel soot and none address faster soot accumulation at higher altitudes. It seems to me a DPF temperature readout on electronic instrument panels would address many DPF complaints, as would more descriptive technical writing.

REGENERATION VIDEOS: Kioti DPF regeneration - YouTube



Diesel Particulate Filter supersedes tractor muffler.
At some point in time DPF needs to be replaced.
At some point in time tractors with mufflers need the muffler replaced.

Tire wear and tire replacement will cause as many headaches and more expense than DPF for most long term compact tractor owners who read and comprehend their Operator's Manual.

 

[FredTractor]

Thanks so much Jeff9366. Very helpful.

 

[Milo]

. Kioti CK2610 or CK3510SE vs Massey Ferguson 1739e

I have been researching compact tractors for a few months. I am in southern Ontario Canada and have about 30 acres of woodlot, cut firewood for personal use, have 70 acres workable (contract most of this out) but will be fixing tile drains and have uses for a backhoe. Will be doing some snow removal but we don't get much snow here.......

There is something to say for the simplicity of the CK2610 over the long term and I don't see the need for a lot of power especially if you're clearing snow with the bucket or blade.

A CK2510 has a bare tractor weight of ~~2,260 pounds.
Backhoe + Backhoe bucket adds 1,200 pounds. FEL with bucket adds 605 pounds. Fuel + lubricants and a few tools add 200 pounds. Options: ~~2,005 pounds.
4,265 pounds total.
There is only so much 25-horsepower can do.

The two (2) range HST transmission a CK2610 equipped with a Loader and Backhoe and 25-horsepower engine will be very, very slow ascending hills, if you have hills. Traveling 30 level acres will be slow....

Jeff he's considering a CK2610 which utilizes a 3 range hydrostatic, not the 2 range 2510. But you're right a CK2610 all loaded down with a hoe and FEL won't have much speed going up hills, but once there its loader and back hoe will do everything the CK3510's will.

 

[Trillium Farm]

Cannot add anything to what Jeff said and will stress what he said, think forward there are plenty of people who bought too few hp not so much the other way around.
A bigger engine will be under less stress will operate at lower RPMs and that may lead to lower consumption, but in the end you will have to decide.

 

[lowechj]

I had a JD 2520 used primarily for snow removal, moving old manure. Last year I looked at a new tractor and wanted a cab, too old for the cold Muskoka winters using an open station tractor. Looked at Mahindra, Kubota, Kioti and M-F as the Kioti dealer sold both. It came down between a Kubota B2650 and a Kioti CK 3510SEHC. The advantage of B2650 is of course no regen, but having the JD I just couldn't get used to the single HST pedal of the Kubota. The M-F 1736 was my original choice but the salesman was actually honest to tell me for my application I didn't need a larger frame tractor. That said I went with the Kioti 3510SE it is 16 months old and has 190 hrs. Yes the manual doesn't do a good job at explaining the regen process. The salesman said it would go 100 hrs before the first passive regen, I have gone through 4 now so roughly every 50 hrs. When the process first starts it feels like a momentary power dip in revs but you just keep working without a problem, takes maybe 15 to 20 min. I changed the HST and trans filter at 50 hrs, and the oil before the winter. This fall I will replace the filters and fluid, oil and filter and maybe the engine coolant. So far I am happy with my Kioti and would purchase the same if I was doing it over, hope this helps

 

[Geotech]

For that size tractor, the CK2601 would probably be best value. Your work will be mostly hydraulic and not PTO stuff (unless you get a chipper, which I wouldn't since you can burn a brush pile a heck of a lot easier). They all weigh about the same. I have a Kubota L2501 that I use on a 24 acre woodlot. No backhoe but I do plenty of loader and box blade work. Its about the same as a CK2610 except a little more expensive for the Kubota name and all that goes with that. If you get a package deal with implements, Kubota will be more price competitive than just the bare machine/loader/backhoe. I love my Bota.

 

[attract her]

"Thanks so much Jeff9366. Very helpful." FT #3

Totally !

"there are plenty of people who bought too few hp not so much the other way around." TF #5

I'm a tractor ignorant noramus, & thus defer to the wisdom abundant here.

BUT !!

As a point of order, there's no such thing as a one-sided coin.

CERTAINLY !! More HP can be a plus.

BUT !!

All ways at a $cost. You're paying for that extra HP whether you're using it or not.

" think forward there are plenty of people who bought too few hp not so much the other way around." TF #5

My Ford 1520 has around 23 HP, not sure. I have the ~30 year old owner's manual. But I can't find HP in "Specifications". I've been told anywhere from 21, to 25. If 21, my JD riding lawnmower has more HP than my tractor. ?!

Count me the other way around. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that I only have to fuel my Ford 1520 once or twice a year. It's got a 7 gallon fuel tank, but it requires a gymnast to fuel it. The filler neck is in the middle of the hood. One must climb the machine with the fuel can, 5 gallons about 40 lbs. cram a funnel into the fuel inlet, and splash diesel about the countryside. wheeeeee !!
This is ergonomics neither al Qaida nor ISIL could improve upon.

"A bigger engine will be under less stress will operate at lower RPMs and that may lead to lower consumption" TF #5

In some applications, indeed.
BUT !!
In applications such as snowblowing, it's the RPM that matters. And if the lower HP is sufficient at that RPM, then the surplus HP of the more powerful engine is wasted.

" I love my Bota." Gt #7

Never has a finer epitaph been written.

NOTE:
I spent a few hours with my Kioti dealer yesterday, looking over a CK2610H.
Looks about right for my needs (replacement for my Ford #1520).

BUT !!

He says it'll take about a day to install the glass house on it. And though heated, not air-conditioned. View attachment 610692

Snowblowing my 800' long driveway may be the most important chore for this machine. Being snowed in in a medical emergency is a needless, foolish risk. So keeping my driveway clear, maintaining my access to civilization year around is a sensible precaution.

BUT !!

I've got hundreds of acres of forest here, and may clock ten times as many hours on the machine when it's wearing a box blade, than when it's got the snowblower on it.

 

[finn1]

Dealer here sells a lot of ck2610 units, a large percentage of which get the field cab installed. Most see snowblower use.

He also sells a lot of the 3510 and 4010 se models with the factory cab, which is what I opted for. Seems like many are opting for the DK, now that hst is available.

In opting for The FCA about and air conditioning, I figured that since this is likely a one time purchase, the integrated cab , lower noise level, and higher power level of the 4010 was worth it.

My BIL, on the other hand, just opted for an open station 2610 with hst, but he won稚 be doing snow removal eith it, or so he says.

Time will tell.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

 

[Geotech]

For a tractor with that frame size, the ONLY need for more power than the base engine is if you have high PTO needs. If the base engine satisfies PTO requirements for the width of implements you will be using, the extra $$HP is just a waste of money which will go to fund more complicated emissions and more $$ on fuel. The tractor is simply not heavy enough to use the extra power otherwise. Each to their own, but those people who wished they bought more HP probably also needed a bigger tractor all together. I can't think of many cases where you'd need more than the base engine of the 2610 in that frame size. And if you did, you should probably be shopping the base engine DK anyways.

In reality, these tractors with different HP in the same frame don't cost the manufacturer more to make except for the jump between 2610 and 3510 requiring the emissions equipment. The 3510 and 4010 must have identical costs to produce, but different profit margins based on higher retail pricing. It's simply a way for Kioti to differentiate customers with different amounts of money so they can sell the most tractors to the most people. Dude with more money is less price sensitive so says, what the hay, I can spend a couple Gs more to get some extra HP. It won't hurt anything. But that same dude is not really extracting any more value other than perception.

Now here come the stories of how an extra 5 HP saved peoples' lives and made an otherwise utterly useless machine a miracle machine...