Kioti CK vs. Kubota B series

[hosejockey2002]

I'm in the early stages of shopping for a compact TLB for use in my part time landscape installation and maintenance business. I'm leaning toward either a Kubota B series or Kioti CK series machine. I have no problems with other brands, but there is a local dealer that carries both brands, and my dad and a co-worker have both had positive experiences with this particular dealer and salesman. I've done a fair amount of searching on this forum as well as online homework, but I would like to hear comments from users of these machines. I've looked at a Kubota B7800 with (I think) a BH75 backhoe and a Kioti L3054 TLB. This particular Kioti looked a little large for the niche type work I do, but I haven't ruled it out. My current machine is a grey market gear drive Yanmar which has served me well but just does not have the productivity necessary for commercial use. I've used Kubota B21s and have found them to be great, so I'm really leaning toward a HST machine. I want to keep the cost in the $20K range so that rules out a new Kubota B26. From the research I've done, so far my favorite is the CK25HST with the K130 loader and a Woods backhoe, but I haven't demoed anything yet. Again, any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Dmace]

190 hours on my Kioti CK20 HST with no problems to date. If you go with the KL130 Kioti loader, make sure it is the updated model or at least modified for the cracking problem they had. Other than that, these tractors are incredible!

 

[williekioti]

I have a ck30 w/80+ hard working hours on it. I demo'ed both the 25 & 30 in gear and hst varients. I opted for the 30 gear with a Woods 1012 FEL because I liked it better for my needs. I liked the hst fine but I'm a little old school and preferred gear better. The machine has performed like a beast for me, you can search in the Kioti owning/operating forum for some of the tasks I've completed(along with many other satisfied owners).

I have no experience with the newer 'Botas, no dealers nearby so they were not an option for me, but have used them in the past and they are quality machines as well. IMO, you should demo every model your interested in, really work it as much as the dealer will allow and buy the one that "feels" best to you in your wallet's comfort range.

The KL loaders are nice, but if your leary of whether the unit is the updated version or not see if your dealer has/can get the Woods(I'm assuming this might be an option if your looking at Woods BHs). The 1012 is bulletproof and with the QA quite versatile as well. Very heavy duty unit.

Good luck with your tractor hunting.

 

[rico304]

I compared the CK20 to the B7610. I liked the Bota due to higher HP for implements and the lighter weight. I believe the Kioti had a higher lift capability which I liked. Price on both were within 300 dollars.
The ligher weight and smaller frame of B series was nice for landscaping business. Gets into smaller area, not much damage to lawns, got around houses and trees easier. A much better dealer / support network in my area as well. Look hard at your needs before choosing. I liked both tractors. Bota beat Kioti out for my needs on overall picture.

 

[patrick_g]

If other important considerations are more or less equal then I would personally favor the more manuverable unit. If you can't get the unit to the SPOT then all the other attirbutes are meaningless. I'm not promoting any brand over another but happened to have a Kubota that I sized to be manuverable around a building site and for landscaping. I wanted plenty of power, 4x4, plenty of hydraulic power and such. Competing units at the time (6 yrs ago) were not as manuverable. The competition was good stuff just at the level where I bought in I got better manuvering as well as ample hydraulics and power.

I could have bought cheaper or more powerful but if I couldn't get it in tight spaces it would have been useless.

Pat

 

[DAP]

Niche work?

First, the CK20 is a small CUT or a large SCUT ....

The B7800 is available with HST only (a good thing) ... the Kioti TLB may be gears only ...

When comparing those 2 oranges, always remember that the Kioti machines will easily outweigh the Kubotas....

Some folks insist or are not bothered by the weightiness of the Kiotis, however. For instance .. and I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but the B7800 weighs in at just under 1800 lbs and the CK30 is near twice that amount. The power to weight ratio of the Kubotas is UNBEATABLE if that is an important consideration.

Most machines lose traction long before they lug the engine into stalling (power).

Last piece of advice is when selecting a machine with a Hoe, if you are going to be using it commercially, make sure it utilizes a sub frame (as opposed to a 3 PH backhoe).

That being said, everyone (even me) is quick to point out that a 3ph mounted hoe can crack a tractor in 2. I've used both types of hoes a little and I would have to say that breaking a 3ph mounted hoe on a CUT would still require a good deal of effort and/or stupidity. The advice on sub frame mounted hoes is usually a better safe than sorry position.

Good luck

 

[Podunkadunk]

My opine means pnuts, but I have to say you can't go wrong with the orange one.

 

[hosejockey2002]

Doug, thanks for your thoughts. On backhoe mounts, I am not even considering a 3 point mount. I don't think my dealer would install one unless I absolutely insisted. As far as the weight issue goes, I see extra weight in a tractor as a good thing unless the main use is mowing. The advantage defintely goes to Kioti there. Some may disagree, but if extra weight is a disadvantage, why do folks buy wheel weights, ballast boxes and fill their tires? I see you have a B7800, and I like many of the features of that machine. How do you like the quarter inching valve as opposed to position control? My current machine doesn't have either, so I can get used to either one. I think the end decision will be made after I have a chance to demo everything I'm considering. I do know that my choice will likely be HST, although I can't completely rule out the 3054's shuttle shift until I drive one.

 

[patrick_g]

My Kubota (Grand L4610HSTC) weighs about 3700 lbs by inself but in addition I have all the cast iron wheel weights Kubota allows and typically have either a box blade or brush hog on the 3PH plus I virtually never take off the HD FEL. I only have 40 PTO HP and still with industrial tires I run out of traction before I run out of HP in virtually all circumstances. I have enough hydraulics to lift the rear of the tractor into the air (with 1300 lb box blade on the 3PH) with the loader hydraulics. Maybe I shouldn't but how I gage FEL loading is if the rear tires stay on the ground enough to allow the front tires to steer.

I wouldn't want a heavier tractor as it would rut too easily in soft dirt. Within the limits of my weight and traction, I have all the HP I can use (4x4) but if it were 2 wheel drive this tractor would be much less useful. I think this is about the largest tractor that has the close in manuvering capability to be able to get in close on a construction site or manuver around a house and obstacles to landscape.

A shortcoming is that you can't have a Kubota Backhoe on this model (cab interferes) and you void the warranty if you mount an aftermarket hoe. I have seen pictures of several tractors broken in half because someone thought it worth the risk to get a hoe. You can install enough subframe reinforcement to hold an aftermarket hoe but I elected to not go there. If I absolutely had to have a hoe on a tractor I would have had to give up the heat and air conditioning of the cab model. NOT LIKELY!!! I'd get a separate hoe without attached tractor first.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

As far as the weight issue goes, I see extra weight in a tractor as a good thing unless the main use is mowing. Some may disagree, but if extra weight is a disadvantage, why do folks buy wheel weights, ballast boxes and fill their tires? I do know that my choice will likely be HST, although I can't completely rule out the 3054's shuttle shift until I drive one.

"EXTRA" weight IS a good thing on a tractor. EXTRA weight can be removed when it improves the particular situation. If the tractor is just plain heavy there isn't any way to lighten it should that be desired.

If you intend to do much FEL work and don't have three hands (one hand on the wheel, one on the joystick, and one for the shift), then you are likely to find HST to be superior to shuttle shift (or any other transmision type.) I'm not saying other trannys can't be used for intensive FEL work, they certainly can. At the end of the session you will have accomplished more in less time with less effort with the HST. If you don't expect to do much FEL work and you don't expect to have to manuver a box blade or brush hog then you might do OK without the HST. Nothing wrong with a shuttle shift. Nothing wrong with a total gear tranny requiring clutching. There are lots of tractor users for whom those are a good fit. Depends on your use.

Pat